I Need Some Advice

[Jurassic Referee]

This thread is now living proof that wimmin are nuthin' but trouble.

Told ya so.......

[reffish]

I understand the respect of calling female players ladies. I call the players ladies all the time. I am trying to be respectful, not degrading. To stir the pot, calling someone players can denote a negative image. Either way, I always try to be respectful to the players on the court.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

This thread is now living proof that wimmin are nuthin' but trouble.

Told ya so.......

Here's what I don't understand...why does *my* thoughtful, intelligent humorous post get deleted and why does THIS example of low-brow Neanderthal thought get to stay? Why?

Anyway...for the OP...one of the best officials I ever knew worked D2 women's ball along with HS ball. He never said "ladies" "guys" "fellas" "gentlemen" or "gals".

Always used the term "players". Why, I asked. Because, he said, you never know what might offend any of these @ssholes.

But don't take my word for it or any of the other so-called experts here. When you show up for camp ask the camp director what *he* prefers.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Here's what I don't understand...why does *my* thoughtful, intelligent humorous post get deleted

Because while it was indeed a post, it was neither thoughtful nor intelligent nor humorous.

Well, that's what I heard. . .

When you show up for camp ask the camp director what *he* prefers.

Or "she". Oops!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Or "she". Oops!

Originally Posted by Ref-X

No, Martin Novitch's camp in Jersey.

Maybe he left off the trailing "a"?

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Or "she". Oops!

Originally Posted by Ref-X

No, Martin Novitch's camp in Jersey.

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Maybe he left off the trailing "a"?

You think Martin's the only one doing observations there?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

You think Martin's the only one doing observations there?

No, when did I say that?

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

But don't take my word for it or any of the other so-called experts here. When you show up for camp ask the camp director what *he* prefers.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Here's what I don't understand...why does *my* thoughtful, intelligent humorous post get deleted and why does THIS example of low-brow Neanderthal thought get to stay? Why?

...because the author of that post is the epitome...nay, the absolute zenith...of class, distinction and savoir faire!

So there....

[Bad Zebra]

This whole "ladies" discussion is mindblowing to me. I have been officiating youth ball from age 9 to varsity HS for 10 years. It never once dawned on me that the term "ladies" may be offensive. I honestly can't imagine how it would offend the players, but I'll defer to the veterans here. I know several female HS coaches that I'll approach next season and get their feedback. This topic might be a better thread on it's own.

[BBall_Junkie]

I have asked once before and stated that I would delete future posts that spurred continued argument (v. debate) over the whole issue of the usage of the word ladies. I have deleted the last two posts.

There are obviously differing opinions here and they have been stated. Please accept that people will not agree on this issue.

The person who started this thread asked for advice on how to improve his chances of having a successful camp experience. There are obviously a lot of people in this forum community that have spent a lot of $$$ and time in a camp environment (myself included). Let's take the time to help lift a fellow "up and coming official" and be productive by sharing our wealth of knowledge and diverse experiences at camp.

Thanks

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

I have asked once before and stated that I would delete future posts that spurred continued argument (v. debate) over the whole issue of the usage of the word ladies. I have deleted the last two posts.

There are obviously differing opinions here and they have been stated. Please accept that people will not agree on this issue.

The person who started this thread asked for advice on how to improve his chances of having a successful camp experience. There are obviously a lot of people in this forum community that have spent a lot of $$$ and time in a camp environment (myself included). Let's take the time to help lift a fellow "up and coming official" and be productive by sharing our wealth of knowledge and diverse experiences at camp.

Thanks

Good grief...we have such in-depth threads as "which shoes do we all wear?", "which whistle is the best?", etc., etc., but posts on how we should refer to players on the court during a BASKETBALL game have no business on a BASKETBALL discussion board? That's some good thinking right there...

And as to the original poster, there's been some great advice given...here's another piece of advice (don't know that it's very good, but here it is anyway) - have fun and don't expect anything. Just go there with the thought that you are going to have a great time and soak in as much as you can and that way if you get hired, cake! If not, then you still met your expectations - had fun and learned lots.

[JRutledge]

I am going to have to completely agree with Rocky. What is going to happen if we discuss other issues on this board that deal with social and racial issues? I know I cannot work a single basketball game without the some consideration to social and racial issues. Either people assume I am from a certain place because of what I look like, or the teams have a different break down racially and socially that there is an underlining tension in the game that even comes out in ways many would not be able to handle on the surface. This issue was talked about from a veteran poster that had experiences about using a certain word. I had also never heard of a situation in a basketball game where this was a problem, and I learned something and it makes me wonder now when I go to camps. There might be some fundamental disagreement the validity or the social significance, but to squelch all conversation about it is silly. We are all adults here and should be able to have a constructive conversation. I did not read any name calling or accusing anyone of anything. I simply read debate about the issue and why some decided not to use or continue to use certain language.

I just think this board could have learned more by the discussion rather than terminating any discussion on the issue. I also do not like the fact that you guys pick and choose what is OK and what is not when there are other postst that are only about social and political opinions. If you are going to keep those up, why not this discussion that deals directly with officiating?

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

Good grief...we have such in-depth threads as "which shoes do we all wear?", "which whistle is the best?", etc., etc., but posts on how we should refer to players on the court during a BASKETBALL game have no business on a BASKETBALL discussion board? That's some good thinking right there...

And as to the original poster, there's been some great advice given...here's another piece of advice (don't know that it's very good, but here it is anyway) - have fun and don't expect anything. Just go there with the thought that you are going to have a great time and soak in as much as you can and that way if you get hired, cake! If not, then you still met your expectations - had fun and learned lots.

And here's 1 more piece of advice for the OP: if the camp you attend has male players do not, under *any* circumstances, call them ladies.

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

I have asked once before and stated that I would delete future posts that spurred continued argument (v. debate) over the whole issue of the usage of the word ladies. I have deleted the last two posts.

Can we start a survey on the topic instead of this thread?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BBall_Junkie

I have asked once before and stated that I would delete future posts that spurred continued argument (v. debate) over the whole issue of the usage of the word ladies.

Will you delete posts which contest whether or not "argument" & "debate" are interchangeable terms in this venue???

My advice to the original poster would be that if a member of the camp staff takes issue with the use of the words "ladies" and/or "gentlemen" that you remove those words from your vocabulary for the remainder of the camp.