NBA Travel
 

Someone please inform me when a travel should be and shouldn't be called in the NBA. I seem to notice obvious travels being no called in some games and not so obvious stuff in other games. What's the deal? :confused:

I must preface my statement by saying I do not watch many NBA games. Actually I have not watched an entire game this season.

I was watching the Game 1 of the Heat and Bulls. There were about 4 travel calls in a matter of minutes. I have watched other games and I see traveling called in those games as well. I personally think the issue with traveling is a little over blown. I watch college games and I see calls not made on what I feel are obvious. The bottom line it is a hard call to make consistently and if you have to guess you should not make the call. That is my take on this issue.

Peace

I do watch NBA games and traveling isn't the thing that gets me going.

Last night LeBron made a big deal of his fourth foul. He clearing charged into the other player. I don't think it was really about the foul, it was about the fact that it was the beginning of the 3rd period and it was his fourth. It is like there is an unwrittern rule that certain players shouldn't foul out of games.

That's what happens when its all about the $$$.

For the same reason it's ok for a pro wrestler to hit someone with a table. It's sports entertainment, not a game. I will say, however, I'm impressed there's been some suspensions during the playoffs. At least they're making it look like they try to enforce sportsmanship.

NBA Travel
 

Some officials just don't want to take away the flow from the game and make a travel call. It's just like a 3 second call. I would rather alert the player that he is in the lane, than to blow the whistle and stop play. All part of game management.

Read your NFHS rulebook on traveling, its the same, just more in depth in the NBA rulebook. I'm sure the NBA guys are told time and time again that if it is borderline and inconclusive just leave it alone. I would rather miss one and let play continue than call one that was never there.

NBA Travel
 

Tomegun, I have the same issue. I work with some ref's, that will not and absolutley not give the top player of the team the last and final 5th foul in the game. I had a situation where a foul occurred and the C should have called it and didn't. I came with a delay whistle on the player and it turned out to be the 5th and I was mocked by the ref who should have made the call. It was a blainted foul. the whole Gym saw it.

Talk about calls made or not made.....
 

Tommy, I couldn't agree more. Did anyone stay up late and watch the Sacto - SA game?? The "screen" by Duncan was so blatantly illegal, but it would have wiped out Barry's 3 AND been Duncan's sixth foul. The ref on the play (Bavetta, I think) passed on it. SA wins. Bavetta also passed on one in the third quarter that should have been called on Ginobilli, who totally wiped out Bonzi Wells after passing into the corner for another Barry 3. All I could say was, "Wow!!"

I saw a game where the Atlanta Hawks Josh Smith caught the ball 5 feet outside the 3 point line and took 3 huge steps without a dribble followed by a dunk. It was the most obvious travel that even the announcers where laughing about this being the NBA and that this isn't called.

Here is the NBA's rule on traveling.

Section XIV-Traveling
a. A player who receives the ball while standing still may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.

b. A player who receives the ball while he is progressing or upon completion of a dribble, may use a two-count rhythm in coming to a stop, passing or shooting the ball.

The first count occurs:
(1) As he receives the ball, if either foot is touching the floor at the time he receives it.
(2) As the foot touches the floor, or as both feet touch the floor simultane- ously after he receives the ball, if both feet are off the floor when he receives it.

The second occurs:
(1) After the count of one when either foot touches the floor, or both feet touch the floor simultaneously.

c. A player who comes to a stop on the count of one may pivot, using either foot as the pivot foot.

d. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with one foot in advance of the other, may pivot using only the rear foot as the pivot foot.

e. A player who comes to a stop on the count of two, with neither foot in advance of the other, may use either foot as the pivot foot.

f. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player's hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.

g. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.

h. A player who falls to the floor while holding the ball, or while coming to a stop, may not gain an advantage by sliding.

i. A player who attempts a field goal may not be the first to touch the ball if it fails to touch the backboard, basket ring or another player.

PENALTY: Loss of ball. The ball is awarded to the opposing team at the sideline, nearest spot of the violation but no nearer the baseline than the foul line extended.

All of these are great examples of why I can't watch the NBA anymore. It is way to player driven. Soon, they might as well not have officials and let the guys call their own. I think the guys that work the NBA are great officials that know how to manage a game and I have all the respect in the world for what they do, but I think their hands are really tied by the fact that the league is there to make money. They have to be all too aware that people didn't pay to see Duncan on the bench in the 4th quarter. It seems that the higher level you go, the more officials are aware of the star player's foul situation. I think it's a good idea to know, you don't want to foul out the best player on the floor with a "nickel dimer", but you also can't let them do whatever they want.

You left out part of the rule.....

j. Traveling may only be called on a player who has been in the NBA less than two years, is averaging less than 10 ppg., and was not selected to play in the NBA Rookie/Sophmore All-Star game.

Amen, Brother Junker.....

I don't have a clue what a "travel" is in the NBA. I don't really feel bad though because I also don't have a clue what a "foul" is either.

The NBA is AND1 with better marketing.

I agree: Wow!! Go SPURS!!!!:D

I missed all of the first game due to assignments/classes at basketball camp - but no regrets: my own games/camp beats NBA anyday. I missed almost half of the game and don't recall seeing Duncan's screen, but the pass-and-crash by Ginobilli was pretty obvious; o.w. the foul calls seemed tight, probably in response to the elbows exchanged in the first game.

Ginobilli's pass was nice and the crash was not obviously an offensive foul to the fans [yea, I know, that means NOTHING... you could see fans on the front row raising their arms like "where's the call" - meaning 'call something on Bonzi'), so maybe that gives the play an 'entertainment pass'? The calls seemed to be going both ways, so I'm sure there were no-calls that went both ways - maybe you are a Sacramento fan/Spurs adversary and recall those no-calls more vividly? The Spurs are living, and in danger of dying, by the 3-point shot this series. I like it better when their games produce winning scores in the 80s.

Thank you Brother JR. Next I like to introduce a local boy..... put your hands together for Mr. Randy Waaatson!

They play so fine, don't you agree?

rules in the NBA
 

My company has season tickets courtside for the SA Spurs. I saw my first game of the season last night for the tix are normally used by clients.

In sitting down before game, a friend walked up who works for one of the teams. He's been around the game and the NBA for a while.

He recalled a time when the league was near death and explained how the league took control of the rules with the goal of generating fan interest. Less traveling, 3 second and offensive foul calls generally mean higher scoring games and that is alledgedly important to the game -- listen to any talking airhead on sports radio / tv.


While last night's game was exciting, i found myself watching the officiating crew work and talking with the team official about calls.

Last night's crew had excellent mechanics and Dick Bavetta succeeded in keeping the game exciting for the league.

Yet, he once shouted down a coach saying "that's not my primary", only to make a call a few minutes later which resulted in every single person/player/coach on the floor asking each other why he'd go out of his area to make (what turned out to be) a mistaken call across the floor.

My friend explained that every team worries about the inconsistency of officiating in the league due to 'thinking too much' (although he agreed that the mechanics are good).
However, the argument used by the league is that everyone's livelihood is at stake as long as fans find the game exciting.
He laughed and said the league will eventually do away with fouls for certain players and just give 2-minute minors.

I believe that children are our future.....

jmkbball - are you TASO? send me a PM! Congrats on raising a family [your only other post] - our youngest will be a senior in HS next year!!

What? The NBA playoffs have started?

Actually not. A Bulls fan, and big basketball fan in general. But the screen set by Duncan was the woorrrrsssst screen everrrrrr. (Turning off Bill Walton mode now) It worried me more because I know I will see that exact same screen this summer, I will make the call, and some coach will scream, " Duncan set the same screen, and they didn't call it on him!!!"

Also, I'm a big fan of watching the NBA refs work, because they deal with the same plays we do, but the speed of those plays makes it that much harder to work. they do an excellent job of positioning in most instances, and they are second-guessed mercilessly (including yours truly LOL). But most of them manage to keep their composure, and continue to work as well as they can uner the circumstances.

The way it was explained to me was that traveling is called the exact same way that fouls are called, by advantage/disadvantage.

From what I have observed, the officials at the NBA and developmental levels work easily as hard as any official at any other level. Many would argue that they work MUCH harder than officials at any other level. They spend hours upon hours watching and reviewing game film, which is a topic I have yet to see posted here in the forum. ( not saying its not here... I just havent seen anything on it, and it is the best way for us as officials to improve what we are doing )

I guess I am simply dissapointed at the way it seems that many of us are negative towards the NBA and its officials. The way you officiate a high school championship game is not going to be the same way you officiate a 40 and over mens league. The higher caliber the players, the better and cleaner the play. We discard what coaches, fans, and the like say about us as junior high, high school, and college officials because they are not in the same position we are, and seldom know the rules and how to apply them because they do not do so on a regular basis.

I would simply argue the same is true for our NBA collegues ( sp?). I am simply of the opinion that I should give them the respect that they deserve for acheiving positions where the highest level of players play, and for their dedication to the perfection of officiating the game of basketball.

Nice job, gentleman. Keep up the good work.

Mr. Stay Positive

This past summer I was fortunate enough to work a few games with current NBA officials and it was quite an experience. They work much harder than anyone I've ever seen. And they do it with such grace and beauty that it brings a tear to my eye. Seriously though, they work their butts off.

At least in my case, I have seen very few negative comments about NBA refs here. I think most of us pretty much agree they are probably the cream of the crop; they do work harder than the rest of us because it is their full-time job.

The biggest argument seems to be about the NBA itself, and whether it's turned into more "entertainment", and less "sport". Just your comment alone about calling a travel on the basis of advantage/disadvantage ruffles the feathers of some basketball fans - if it's a travel, it's a travel. Who cares if the fans groan that Shaq's monster dunk doesn't count after he takes a couple of shuffle steps towards the hoop? Apparently, the NBA does; as long as he had to get by a couple of defenders bumping him in the lane, it all evens out. The monster dunk gets the ESPN replay, not the foul call on the bump or the travel call.

The NBA refs are the best at what they do, given the parameters they have to work with. What a lot of people here argue about are the parameters.

Mr. Positive Towards All Officials

Well said M&M. The NBA is purely entertainment to me. It's fun to see the athletic plays they make, but it's really not the sport of basketball to me. This has nothing to do with the officials, like all of us, they call the game like their assignors want them to. One of my favorite examples of the good old NBA advantage/disadvantage was a cut to commercial when Hakeem was playing. The announcer says that you, "Just can't stop the dream shake." and the clip shows Hakeem pivot on his right foot, then pivot on his left foot, and amazingly he was able to get away from his defender for an easy lay in. The NBA is FAAAAANNNNTASTIC!

I agree, my complaint is with Ronnie Nunn and David Stern.

Shaq complains about the all the contact he has to endure but if the NBA would enforce its traveling rules and displacement rules against him then defenders wouldn't feel the need to pound on him to play defense.

Tonight is a perfect example of entertainment over rules. I love Lebron James, I think he'll have 2-3 rings before he retires but come on, could he have made that great play to win the game without the benefit of 4-steps???

It was an obvious, no doubt about it travel. Obviously the NBA edict is not to call traveling in those situations.

Geeze, I just went to ESPN to take a look at it; I thought it couldn't really be <b>that</b> bad. I was wrong.:rolleyes: He did a jump stop- and then he just kept a-walking until he got open.

Unbelievable......

I only saw it once on SportsCenter, but it didn't strike me as all that bad. He pivoted after the jump stop, but that's legal in the NBA. I'll take your word for it, tho.

Chuck,

You may want to take another look at the replay. He jumped stopped (debatable, just looked like 2 steps to me), then after pump faking the defender out of position, he took 2 full steps towards the basket, then jumped off 2 feet.

Grin....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...042901503.html

Any resemblance between what's in the rules and what's actually called is strictly coincidental.

NBA basketball- Faaaaaaaantastic.......and getting more like pro wrestling every day.:)

Brought back from the dead because of something in this morning's NY Post.....

From Peter Vecsey's column- citing NBA Director of Official, Ronnie Nunn, on this play- <i><b>"Nunn unhesitatingly concedes James got away with two violations, a walk and an up-and-down, on his game-winning drive in game 3"</b></i>

http://www.nypost.com/sports/65573.htm

Only two?

First of all, why do you keep quoting me?!?! I already admitted that I only saw it once and that I take your word (and Ronnie's) that it was, in fact, a travel.

But second of all, "We did a lot of things to win the game," the Wizards coach said after practice yesterday. "And because a travel wasn't called, you don't win the game." Come on. Don't we always say that one call doesn't cost the game? Wasn't there a missed FT in there somewhere, or a turnover, or a missed defensive switch? Maybe that was why they lost the game.

Third of all, I don't like Vecsey on TV or in print.

1) Because you're an NBA apologist... and I also like to bug you.....

2) Yabut.....that one did. If they call traveling, Washington wins. They didn't and Cleveland won.

But.....who really cares anyway? :D

Chuck's point is still valid. If Washington makes a couple of those missed free throws, makes that one defensive switch, avoids that one turnover, then they're in a position where the travel call doesn't matter.

And yes, I realize that you're just yankin' Chuck's chain. But it's been a while since I've had a well-reasoned, thoughtful post (and this is the best I could do on short notice ;))

But of course they *didn't* make that other free throw or avoid that turnover. Which is exactly why this no call on an obvious travel *did* matter & gave LA the game.

The blown call no more gave the game away than missed free throws, poor defense and turnovers. It was merely the final, and most controversial miss of the night.