NFHS Player leaving bench area
 

Is there a rule which would prohibit a player from leaving the bench area to run to the locker room and return later? Not talking about injury.

Thanks.

Joel

Nope...legal...think of the blood on the shirt rule to change. They MUST leave the visual confines of the playing area.

The only rule that comes to mind that prohibits leaving the bench area would be for a fight, but that's coming onto the court.

There was a POE in '04-'05 that said that coaches should not allow players to leave the bench unattended. They used examples like going for a drink in the hallway or sitting with friends in the stands. I would prefer to see the kid be accompanied by an adult, although I'm not sure I would T for it, which I think is what the POE wanted us to do.

Even when NFHS wants us to do something "by the book," I think you always need to figure it common sense. Let me give you an example.

I'm reffing at our state's girls B state tournament about a month ago. It's one of our evaluated games which determines if we get to officiate a semi-final game or not. We have about 4 minutes left in the game and one of my partner's calls the fifth foul on a player so she gets DQ'd and replaced.

I'm lead and about to administer the free-throw when I see the DQ'd player get up and run to the other team's bench. She shakes hands with their coach and then runs back to her own bench to sit down. I think to myself, "I've never seen that before, but good sportsmanship" and I am about to adminster the second FT. T trail official puts his hand up and comes running to me. He says, "I'm going to give a technical foul on that player for leaving the bench area." I said, "but she was just being a good sport!" He says, "nope, I'm giving the T."

I wave my center official in and say, "he wants to give a T to that girl. I think it's good sportsmanship. What do you think?" He says, "we aren't giving a T for good sportsmanship." My original partner relents and the game goes on without incident.

I think every rule, and even a POE, needs some common sense.

Z

A perfect illustration of the role that officials play during a game: interpret and apply the rules, as written, in an equitable manner to achieve fairness for both teams.

I hope you and your partner received the appropriate evaulation based on your excellent judgement.

the problem
 

with the rules, or at least some of them, and how they are written is that a good number of officials -- higher than 10% -- apply them to literally. I honestly dont give a rats a$$ if a player gets up to go get a drink of water by himself. I mean its not like its Ron Artest running around the stadium to fight another player who just got ejected too.

Ref: *tweet* technical foul on white 45.
Coach: What the deuce? huh....what just happend? what did he do?.....im lost
Ref: Coach your player got off the bench.
Coach: Yes players tend to do that sometimes when they are thirsty as water doesnt go to them.

I mean really how can you even entertain that thought.

Z, just so I can understand this common sense approach. (I am growing here so I can become a state level official). It was inconvenient for the DQed player to shake the hand of the opposing coach prior to her going to the bench? IMO, she should have done that within the 30 sec replacement time. Way to support your fellow official!!

IMO, totally different situation. Water is located at the end of the bench area. The player crossing the division line to "display sportmanship" in not the bench area.

Hopefully, when you've grown to the level where you're being invited to a state championship, you'll understand why Z did what he did.

Calling a "T" in that particular situation sureasheck isn't a common sense approach imo.

There's certain battles that have to be won. This isn't one of them.

Amen, Jurassic. Please, please, please DON'T call a T in that situation. It is the absolute wrong thing to do.

Thanks, we did. :)

Z

water is not always at the end of the bench -- many lower level games the away team has to bring their own water -- many times they dont -- so if a player doesnt have his own stash he need to go get some from somewhere -- unless you allow players to drill to get some ground water truerookie --

go ahead call this t -- the only thing you will be growing into will be a steady stream of JV games.

YES! She should have gone to the opposing bench before she was replaced. But she didn't. So you ignore it and move on. You don't call a T in such a situation and draw attention to yourself.

This is exactly the type of thinking that will keep you working middle school and JV games.

Truerookie, don't be a plumber.

Do they ignore POE's in your area, deecee?

From the 2004-05 rule book:
POE 3A: The committee is also concerned about bench personnel leaving the bench, sometimes during a live ball. Heading into the hallway to get a drink or sitting up in the stands with friends or family, even for a short period of time are not authorized reasons unless they are medically related. Coaches must ensure that bench personnel stay on the bench."

The idea behind the idea was to not have bench personnel wandering all over the place and remain in their bench area. We instuct our officials to enforce the POE with a "don't do that". Iow, just shoo 'em back to the bench if they're wandering. If they don't wanna listen to you, hey, then it's on them. If our officials don't want to enforce it uniformly the way that we advise them to, then they ain't gonna get JV games.

why are they concerend about bench players leaving their bench to get a drink? what concern is that of ours? that to me is the coaches problem and not the officials -- if there is a good reason then let me hear it.

I am guessing that since asst coaches are not allowed to stand [except for the exceptions], that the players who are deemed bench personnel fall into the same category.

Well, as 26 Year said, it's supposed to be an automatic technical if bench personnel are on their feet, let alone going for a tour. If you allow one to do it, then you gotta allow all of them to do it too. I really can't see the logic in letting 6 or 7 kids from the bench go over and chat up the other team's cheerleaders. :) Other than that, coaches are supposed to be responsible at all times for their bench personnel if something does happen. And if something ever does happen to a team member that the coach and the officials have allowed to wander, well then both our butts are gonna be in deep doodoo. There's enough crowd control problems around now without our having to worry about players getting up close and personal with the crowd also.

It's not really the idea of just going for a quick drink. It's a matter of the FED wanting to make sure that bench personnel are being properly supervised at all times during a game. And if you don't even know where a kid is, your sureasheck can't say that they're being supervised or under some kind of control.

That's my understanding of the logic behind the POE and the rule restricting a team to their bench.

Someone have to keep the pipelines clean.

This is another classic example of if you do not agree with me you are "NOT" worthy of being an official.

Nope, it's just somebody telling you that you've still got a lot to learn. Z and BktBallRef have been selected to go to State Championships for a reason, Rook. Might not be a bad idea to think about what they're trying to tell you.

Or not......

Your choice.

No, a plumber is someone who goes looking for $hit.

No, this is another classic example of a rookie who can't learn anything from anyone else. You need not worry about me disagreeing with you again. I don't waste my time with anyone who isn't interested in improving.

Hey, BBR called me a plumber a couple of years ago. Get over it. Sometimes you have to look at game management. If you make a call like that it will magnify any call you may have passed on but shouldn't have earlier in the game.

Nope, I said don't be a plumber. :)

At least you're consistent! :D

BBR, this is why I love being an American. You do not know if I learn anything or not. Who is you to judge if I am interested in improving on anything Mister. I was just disagreeing with you allowing a player to leave the confines of her team bench after being DQed to display "Sportsmanship" because, she did not do it during the time period allowed for the coach to replace her. Would it be safe to say that during the replace period the DQed player was standing in the huddle with the coach while he/she decides, who to put in the game to replace her.

These are the variables, I observed are missing from your scenario. The actions which occurred during the replace period.
IMO, you did not support your partner who wanted to make the correct call.

You do not have to agree with that Mister. Please do not waste your time replying to anything you feel will expose your shortcomings in that situation.

Or not......

Too bad.

By then, maybe he'll get the middle school championship game.

Chuck, BBR, JR. I truly understand what the group think concept is all about. You all are prime examples. Once again, thanks for living up to your insults on others who do not see things like you what them too.

Hey Rook, I don't know you, your skill level, or anything about you. I'm just making a joke. You don't like it, skip it. Relax, listen to what people are trying to tell you, and then decide if they might have a point.

truerookie,
you came in looking to improve, or at least that is what you said in your original post in this thread. With that in mind you should open up and listen to what people have to say. Mechanics and rules knowledge are very important, but what really begins to separate officials is game management. Game management is knowing when to follow the letter of the law and when to look for the intent. Sportsmanship is always a POE for the NFHS, anytime we can allow a player to exhibit good sportsmanship it should be allowed. Not to mention the fact that making a call like you are suggesting here will lead to many more problems with the game and anytime you would run into those teams in the future. Yes I am aware that you didn't make the call you are just commenting. Not that BBR, Chuck or JR need me to come to their aid, but.....I have disagreed at one time or another with each one of them, I have on many more occasions agreed with each of them, and the vast majority of the times that I originally disagree with any of them, I usually come around in due time...

Naw, I didn't insult you at all, Rook. If I hadda, you woulda known it, believe me.:)

I said it was completely up to you whether you follow anybody's advice on this forum or listen to anybody either. Obviously, you don't like or agree with the any of the counsel that you've been given. That's cool; I could care less. Do what you want to do and ignore who you want to ignore. Who cares? It's just a waste of both of our time anyway, isn't it?

Have a great career.

Isn't that pretty much what I just said? :confused:

By the way, could you really care less? Or did you mean that you couldn't care less? As in, there's absolutely nothing lower on your priority list.

Just a little tip from your friendly neighborhood Mr. Annoying Grammar Guy.

TR, you might want to read some of your own posts before you start complaining about people insulting you. Your posts were dripping with sarcasm before I ever posted in this thread.

Here's some of the gems you've posted in this thread:

"Z, just so I can understand this common sense approach. (I am growing here so I can become a state level official)"

"Way to support your fellow official!!"

"It is good to know according to you, I am worthy of working some level of basketball. Thanks for the compliment. "

"A DQed player puts me into a position to make a proper call and I should ignore it because it does not pass the common sense test."

"Please do not waste your time replying to anything you feel will expose your shortcomings in that situation."

Pot. Kettle. Black.<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Maybe he meant that he COULD care less but he really didn't.

Probably thought it would be a waste of his time. ;)

Shouldn't you be out auditioning for that Quasimodo role?

Or..... he really doesn't give a sh!t.....:D

Are you calling for a plumber? :D

Depends on who's playing La Esmerelda. If it's Maureen O'Hara again, I'll pass.

She doesn't really ring your chimes, eh?

I've never met her, but her face rings a bell.

Personally, I ignore a player going to get water...especially if he/she just played his/her butt off. I don't want to be responsible for a player getting dehydrated and sick from that causing a medically related situation. Sure, it was their responsibility to have their bottle filled beforehand, but if the player needs water at that moment, then take the walk. As long as it's not disruptive, then it's ok by me.

Dribble, you do realize that the statement that you are disagreeing with isn't mine, I hope. It's cited directly out of this year's NFHS rule book. Iow, you are saying that the rulebook should be ignored.

Yup, I do recognize it and I'm not saying that to be argumentative. I'm just saying that if a kid is going to drop because he/she needs water, then I'm not going to stop it.

I know it was a POE, but the intent of that was to prevent unnecessary foolishness on some players' parts. Some kids think they can do whatever during the game, so the NFHS came up with that to curb such behavior.

I'm not suggesting we ignore the rulebook, but use our discretion and judgment as to when to apply it.

Just wanted to add- I tend to agree, stay on the bench, coach do your job and take care of the team by traveling with drinking water. Players- stay the hell out of the stands unless you want to watch the rest of the season from there.
HOWEVER...
staying hydrated could be considered medically necessary ;)

Old School
 

In MY day, we waited till halftime to get a drink and then when the game was over. These kids today.....;)