Never had this happen?
 

I was ask to Ref a 5th Grade Tounament Game. One of the Coaches during the
game is yelling at me "I've got 3 girls crying and there's no foul" My responce
was "Since when is crying a foul". With about 5min to go before halftime I called
a Technical Foul on that Coaches player for throwing a elbow. After the foul
shots were taken she wanted a time out. Thought it would be best to give her
a Time Out to settle her team down. They broke the huddle and the whole team
went and sat on the beach, the Coach called me over to say "Were done here"
"We Quit" I said are you sure you want to do this in front of all these fans.
She said yes. Wow I just shook my head in disbeleaf. I would be surprised come
Monday evening if she is still the head Coach of that program. And I'am sure I'll
be talking to the OHSAA about this one.
Any suggestions?

Nice new look to the Forum
GFS-1

Write the report, if there's anyone to submit it to. Include only the facts and the comments from coaches and players that you directly heard. If you have the info, or can get it, include the score and time remaining when the game was forfeited.

With apologies to Tom Hanks: "Crying? There's no crying in basketball."

MTD, Sr.

Just a coupla technical points from the rules:

1) You can't call a technical foul for an elbow unless the ball was dead at the time. Even then, it would have to be an intentional or flagrant technical foul if contact was involved. If the elbow occurred during a live ball, it's a violation if the elbow misses, and a personal foul of some kind (PC, TC, common, intentional, flagrant) if the elbow connects.

2) There's no thinking as to whether you would grant the time-out or not. If the request is made while the ball is dead or in her team's possession, you have to grant that coach's request. You can't turn it down except for some very specific circumstances at the start or end of a game or an overtime period.

Unless you play for Gonzaga or Duke......

Or you are an Ohio State fan.....:p

Really? If somebody lines up an opponent's chin with an elbow, but misses, I'm going with a T. No violation there. The fact that it's not specifically listed in unsporting acts does not imply that you can't rule it that way. You go for the head, you're not getting away with it just b/c you missed.

If it feels good.....

I can't argue with that logic too much. You could also call it "fighting" if the opponent retaliated to the elbow by throwing a punch.

I was referring to your ordinary, run-of-the-mill elbow, but there could be exceptions.

According to what we all witnessed after UCLAs win in the Regional Semi, I would tend to disagree.

I agree, if a player throws a non-contact elbow I will most likely have a flagrant T.

Enjoy the forfeit ! You still get paid !

Chuck:

You have made a very good point. There is a difference between excessively swinging one's elbows and attempting to hit an opponent with an elbow and missing.

MTD, Sr.

The thing I would do under this situation, as far as the coach saying they wanted to quit, is to emphasize for as long as he or she will remain and listen to me is that you do NOT want to do this. It is setting a VERY bad example for the players and will only get you in a LOT of trouble depending upon the league authority. If that doesn't work, have the coach of the other team go and give it a whirl.

If this is an inseason game in Texas, I will tell the coach point blank: "coach, if you leave the floor with your team, it is very likely you will be suspended for the year and there is a very good chance you are putting your job in jeapordy. You and your team need to stay on the floor." After that, you don't have control of what happens.

First of all this is a 5th grade game I would not worry about it. Coaches at this level are there for a reason. If they understood how to coach or had any coaching ability or basketball background, they would be working somewhere else. ;)

What would the OHSAA have to do with this at all if you do not mind me asking? Is this not a "high school association?"

Peace

I disagree completely with your philosophy.

It ain't our job to tell a coach what to do <b>ever</b>. It ain't our job to argue with 'em, convince 'em of anything, or try to talk 'em into anything. It also ain't our job to ever threaten a coach with a suspension or a possible job loss; saying something like that could come back and bite you in the butt later on <b>big time</b>. You've already got one extremely pissed-off coach. If you now try to threaten or lecture him, you're only gonna make her madder and possibly escalate a bad situation into a worse one.

Just <b>react</b> to what's going on and say as little as possible. Tell the coach that he's got one minute to put her team on the floor and get the timer to start the clock. If the minute runs down and she's not ready to go, forfeit the game. Then you just write it up as completely as possible and hand it into their league administration or whover handles these cases. It's their job to decide what happens next, not our's.

Jmo.

And how would we react if a coach told us OUR job was in jeopardy? Don't go there.

I do not understand what any official hopes to accomplish by making "smart a$$" remarks to coaches (i.e "since when is crying a foul?"). It certainly doesn't resolve the situation - the coach is mad at the perceived lack of calls - and now you're making him more angry by dismissing his complaint with a poor attempt at humor.

Find out what his concern is, address it (if needed), and move on. The goal is to reduce his level of frustration/anger - not increase it.

I with you on this one JR.

I had a similar situation in a 6th grade game. First quarter, visiting coach screaming. I go over to find out what's wrong. He demands a new clock operator. I ask again what's wrong. Coach scream unitelligably about the clock operator. At this point the other coach jumps up and demands that he show respect. The gym direcotr comes over so I leave it to him. Turns out the team gets up and leaves.

Unfortuantely I had another game to do so I had to hang out.

tonyp - yours is a good example of an official who tries to find out what the problem is and attempt to fix/address it, if possible. We can't be "all things to all people" and resolve every conflict, but we certainly have to find out what is going on. Clearly the coach didn't like the alternatives and he made the decision to walk out with his team. Not much you can do about that except be confident in the fact that you tried to resonably resolve the issue.....much better than using some smart-aleck answer to his initial complaint.......well done!

Thanks. I will admit that I'm not immune from the smart alack response at times. From talking to people after he left, he was complaining that the clock wasn't stopping on whistles. Of course, at that age level in that league it's running clock. How he got 8 games into the season without knowing that I'll never know. He was also losing 13-0 so maybe that was a factor. I just hate to see the kids not get to play their game because of an adult.

It's not a threat or a lecture; its reality. I don't have any ability to fire someone, so how could it be a threat? I guess I can see how someone would see it as a lecture, but even if it is, they certainly deserve it. If they take it as a threat or lecture and stay on the court, everybody wins.

If they truly are stupid enough to try and come back at me for suggesting I've done something wrong after they've walked off the court -- something at least in Texas that will get them in serious trouble -- I say bring it on. My point in suggesting this to a coach is to try and make one last attempt to their logical side (which you may think is a waste of time, and a point with which I may agree), and I have had very good success in various events in my life in making profound, emphatic statements that "encouraged" people to act appropriately (statements that I may not have fully been able to back up) -- or to not act inappropriately. If their better judgment actually does come into play and they stay on the court, we play on and forget the whole thing. If they do leave, I have done what I can and could never imagine getting into trouble for saying something like what I've quoted. I will simply explain that I was illustrating that their behavior would have very serious negative consequences and to get them to behave appropriately is always justified. I wasn't doing or saying anything wrong or illegal. A football coach/AD told me several years ago that any coach of his that left the court or field with their team would be fired. They would have breached their contract.

If you want to handle it differently, fine. I don't disagree with what you said about it not being our job to do this. But I feel that in certain cases (I probably wouldn't do it in a HS varsity game and would never do it in a college game) it would be worthwhile.

What's the difference between saying this and saying, "First of all this is a 5th grade game I would not worry about it. Officials at this level are there for a reason. If they understood how to officiate or had any officiating ability or basketball background, they would be working somewhere else. ;)

No need to be condescending.

What the coach was saying about her players "crying" was clearly that the official was not calling fouls on contact that was severe enough to make them cry.

Had you previously officiated in this league's regular season? Usually sub-HS officials allow less contact than HS leagues, and you were almost certainly allowing more contact than she believed to be normal. This may have been more her perception than reality, but her subsequent actions indicate she felt strongly about it.

To defuse the situation, you might have explained why the contact was not a foul, or you might have ignored the coach as others have suggested, but instead you chose to be antagonistic by making a wisecrack. This contributed to the coach's perception that you were targeting her team.