Bilas on the shot clock/10 second call
 

Bilas made the comment last night during Duke/LSU that it's easy to tell whether there has been a 10 second violation by looking at the shot clock.

A couple of thoughts on that. First, I wonder whether NCAA refs actually use the shot clock for this purpose. If the trailing official has not actually seen the clock reset on change of possesion, does he just defer to the clock operator and assume that it started exactly at the point of possession? And if so, why does he count it off -- why not just let the shot clock do the work. Tradition?

Second, and more important, what Bilas said was something like, "when the clock gets to 25 it's clear that it's a 10 second violation." Actually, isn't that wrong? I assume the shot clock works like the game clock, so that when it scrolls from 26 to 25, really only 9 seconds have elapsed. It's not until the instant that it changes from 25 to 24 that 10 seconds have elapsed.

Anyway, sort of a pin-headed question, but I thought it was an interesting comment.

The start of your count and the start of the shot clock are not necessarily the same. Bilas is wrong like a lot of commentators. There has to be some possession by Team A to start the 10 second count. The shot clock starts no matter who actually touches the ball.

Peace

But in this case the possession started the same time as the shot clock. I thought Bilas was wrong because he said it's a violation when it's at 25 seconds. I was thinking that it had to read 24 seconds in order to know that 10 seconds took place.

Good catch by Burr.

I am not debating the situation that took place in the actual game you saw. I am just addressing that what Bilas is saying is basically wrong. Simply touching the ball does not start the count; you have to have possession first. So the time coming off the clock will be misleading if you use that as your only reference point.

Peace

Also this applies only during a throw-in. If it's a rebound then the shot clock doesn't start until a team gains possession of the ball.

Well, let me ask the question a slightly different way.

On the play in question, I believe the ball was inbounded and caught cleanly.

In that circumstance, does the official defer to the shot clock operator to have started the clock properly, or does he simply count it off himself without any regard to the shot clock.

Seems like that situation can put a ref in a pretty tough position. If the clock reads 25 when the whistle is blown, you should expect a pretty harsh comment from the coach, since, if the clock operator pushed the button at the right time, it cannot possibly be 10 seconds. Conversely, if the player doesn't cross until after it reads 24, the other coach seems to have a gripe.

From what I was told, NBA guys use the shot clock and the "magic number" is 16 because of 8 second count instead of 10, so it seems that 25 would be the 10 second count for college.

This is why your count should be the only count. If you look in the rulebook (which we are supposed to use) and mechanics books, you still give a visual count in these situations. I do not care what the coach says, my count is what matters and that is what I would tell them. I cannot speak for this level of basketball and the people that work them. I can tell you from my lower level college experience we have people that start the clock improperly all the time. So if I go by the shot clock alone, I might find myself in a lot of trouble.

Peace

Seems like the right answer, although at some point at that level I think the ref has to be sensitive to those situations he is certain the announcers and the coaches will misunderstand. I don't think this falls into the "do the expected" thing category, but it's in that neighborhood. Sounds like the NBA guys have settled on a de facto 7.1 second, and trust the shot clock operator, rule to avoid the problem.

Since I can say with absolute confidence that I will never officiate in a league that uses shot clocks, it was mostly a point of curiosity.

I wouldn't use the shotclock to make thecall but I would certainly take a peak and make sure I'm not calling a 10 second violation when the shot clock reads >26 in most situations.

I actually enjoy Bilas most time. Certainly beats the heck outta Dukie V and Packer.

I do JuCo ball, and as you can imagine the shot clock operators are not NBA caliber, so in my particular case I don't use the shot clock. I have many a game where the shot clock operator starts the clock too early (when the ball is still at the disposal of the thrower-in after a made basket) and sometimes really late (which in a lot of cases we have to kill play and have time ticked off the shot clock--using our 10-second count as definite knowledge)

If I have a good shot clock operator and if the ball is controlled as soon as it comes inbounds,then yes, I will use the shot clock for my 10 second count.

Also, if you have a good shot clock operator and if the ball is controlled as soon as it comes inbounds, and if my partner loses the count for some reason, then yes, I will call it from the C when the shot clock gets to 25.

No, that's not true. Using that philosophy, there would still be 1 second remaining on the clock after it hits 0.
35
34
33
32
31
30
29
28
27
26

10 seconds has expired when the clock hits 25.

35 - 10 = 25

I hope that clears it up for you. ;)

Clear like mud!

Actually, by that logic, 35 seconds would have expired when the clock hits 1, and we know that's not true. So I am confused.