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Old Mon Mar 20, 2006, 11:39am
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National Federation clearification please.
Team "A" has the ball when the coach of team "A" makes a signal to his/her team on the floor that looks like a "time out signal"!!
An official on the floor signals TIME OUT "A".
The coach says that he does not want time out since the signal picked up by the referee was not a time out signal but some sort of play he wanted his team to run at that time in the game.
What do yiu do?
I know that the logical thing would be to just negate the time out and move on with the rest of the game. However, this is not a correctable error so maybe the time out must be assessed against team "A" against their will. Not a good situation for the team or the referee.
Can some one clear this up and maybe get me a case book reference to look at. I could not find this instance and it happened in a state playoff game.
FYI the referees just negated the time out and moved on. Were they correct (by rule) in handling it that way?
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Old Mon Mar 20, 2006, 11:56am
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I don't think it matters whether you consider this a 'correctable error' or not. If it wasn't recorded in the book, what's to correct? Inadvertent whistle. Move on.
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Old Mon Mar 20, 2006, 12:58pm
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continue on with an inadvertant whistle.

I had a case where a coach yelled out
"5 out". That was a play he coached
to hold the ball...I found that out after
I blew the whistle and granted him.
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Old Mon Mar 20, 2006, 01:01pm
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Don't know if this applies to this post, but food for thought:

I did a game 2 seasons ago where the coach for Team B called for a timeout while Team A had the ball at their disposal for a designated spot throw-in in Team A's backcourt. I mistakenly blew my whistle and called out "time-out, Blue". I then granted the time-out and explained to Team A coach that since I had blown my whistle and acknowleged the time-out request, it had to be granted. He had no major problem with it.

After the game I bumped into Team B coach as I was leaving the locker room and he shook my hand and told me "nice game". Then he said that he purposely called for the time-out while Team A was inbounding. He said I was the first official ever to force him to take the time-out after mistakenly blowing the whistle. He said every other time a official had blown the whistle that they would wave the time-out off, but he would use the interruption to change his defense.
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Old Mon Mar 20, 2006, 01:24pm
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This was my only big screw up of the year. I had an IW late in a good varsity game (about 4-5 point difference at the time). It was just like the OP, but in mine, the deensive team was the one calling for the time out. I had a huge BF (brain fart) and tried granting the timeout. We called it an IW and moved on, although I looked like an idiot for a few minutes.
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Old Tue Mar 21, 2006, 10:12pm
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If the team truly did not request a TO and the official only heard or saw something that looked like a TO request, the correct call is an inadvertant whistle.
If the team requested a TO in a situation in which by rule they should not be granted one, but the official mistakenly grants it anyway, then the correct call is to charge the TO to that team. That's what the casebook says.

5.8.3 SITUATION E: The official erroneously grants Team B a time-out in a situation when Team B cannot have one. What happens now? RULING: Team B is entitled to use the time-out since it was granted. The time-out once granted cannot be revoked and is charged to Team B. All privileges and rights permitted during a charged time-out are available to both teams.
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Old Tue Mar 21, 2006, 10:33pm
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Nfhs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
This was my only big screw up of the year. I had an IW late in a good varsity game (about 4-5 point difference at the time). It was just like the OP, but in mine, the deensive team was the one calling for the time out. I had a huge BF (brain fart) and tried granting the timeout. We called it an IW and moved on, although I looked like an idiot for a few minutes.
Nope! Once you whistle and kill the play, you have to grant the TO. Yeah, you just screwed the pooch but the ball is dead and Team B wants a TO. You have to give it to them.
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Old Wed Mar 22, 2006, 11:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef
Nope! Once you whistle and kill the play, you have to grant the TO. Yeah, you just screwed the pooch but the ball is dead and Team B wants a TO. You have to give it to them.
That is the way I understood it.

However, this raises the problem with calling it an inadvertant whistle. From the way I understand the rules, this means you have to go to the arrow and give the ball to the team entitled to it under the AP procedure. Now, common sense says - IW, one team in possession clearly, give it back to them. Rules say IW, give it to the team entitled to by the arrow.

I don't think there are too many refs who will follow this rule, but what is everyone's take on it?
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Old Wed Mar 22, 2006, 11:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkeii
That is the way I understood it.

However, this raises the problem with calling it an inadvertant whistle. From the way I understand the rules, this means you have to go to the arrow and give the ball to the team entitled to it under the AP procedure. Now, common sense says - IW, one team in possession clearly, give it back to them. Rules say IW, give it to the team entitled to by the arrow.

I don't think there are too many refs who will follow this rule, but what is everyone's take on it?
AP arrow only applies if there is no team control. If there is player and/or team control (including an interrupted dribble) the ball goes back to the offense. If IW occurs during the flight of a shot and basket is made then IW is ignored, if shot is missed you go to the AP arrow.

BTW, there was an IW in one of Tennessee's games this past weekend where an official anticipated a traveling call on Lofton.
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Old Wed Mar 22, 2006, 11:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
AP arrow only applies if there is no team control. If there is player and/or team control (including an interrupted dribble) the ball goes back to the offense.
FED 4-36-2a.
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Old Wed Mar 22, 2006, 11:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
AP arrow only applies if there is no team control. If there is player and/or team control (including an interrupted dribble) the ball goes back to the offense. If IW occurs during the flight of a shot and basket is made then IW is ignored, if shot is missed you go to the AP arrow.

BTW, there was an IW in one of Tennessee's games this past weekend where an official anticipated a traveling call on Lofton.
From what I remember reading, an IW doesn't consider possession - do you have a rule reference on this one? I tried looking, but couldn't find it.
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Old Wed Mar 22, 2006, 11:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkeii
From what I remember reading, an IW doesn't consider possession - do you have a rule reference on this one? I tried looking, but couldn't find it.
From the NCAA Rule Book: 6-3-1g; 7-5-20 (includes AR 16)

My NFHS book is in my car and it's too cold to run out there and get it
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Old Wed Mar 22, 2006, 10:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drinkeii
From what I remember reading, an IW doesn't consider possession - do you have a rule reference on this one? I tried looking, but couldn't find it.
NFHS
ACCIDENTAL WHISTLE
*7.5.4 SITUATION: An official sounds his/her whistle accidentally: (a) while A1 is dribbling and in player control; (b) while Team A is in control and passing among teammates; (c) while A1's unsuccessful try attempt is in flight; or (d) while A's successful try attempt is in flight. RULING: The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. In (a) and (b), Team A is awarded a throw-in at the nearest out-of-bounds spot to where the ball was when the whistle was accidentally sounded. In (c), the ball is put in play by the team entitled to the throw-in using the alternating-possession procedure. In (d), even though, by rule, there is no team control during this dead-ball period, the ball would be given to Team B for a throw-in anywhere along the end line. Team B would have clearly received the ball had the official not accidentally sounded his/her whistle. (7-4-4; 4-12-3,6; 4-36)
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Old Wed Mar 22, 2006, 10:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef
From the NCAA Rule Book: 6-3-1g; 7-5-20 (includes AR 16)

My NFHS book is in my car and it's too cold to run out there and get it
If you had a remote start you could warm the book up. Then it would not be too cold.
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