Tim Higgins just called a violation on a South Alabama player that stole the ball and started dribbling. The player's momentum then carried him out of bounds. The player then re-established himself back in bounds and ran the ball down and picked it up. Higgins gave the signal for carrying or back court violation. :confused::confused::confused:

Is legal in High School. Is there any difference in college?

[Edited by BBall_Junkie on Mar 17th, 2006 at 09:51 AM]

The rule is the same. Now are you sure this was called for the reason you say it was? I did not see the play but it sounds like their might have been more to what took place. Did anyone else see the play?

Peace

[Edited by BBall_Junkie on Mar 17th, 2006 at 09:53 AM]

This is definitely how it happened. It was in the first half. The player let it roll for 20 feet because he was hesitant to pick it up. Eventually he picked it up and Higgins pointed to the sideline and made the carry signal.

Perhaps he judged that the player should have been able to avoid going OOB to begin with. You did say that the player had enough room/time that he started dribbling before heading OOB. Sounds like it could be possible that the player had a choice to not go out but did anyway.

Having not seen the play, I can't say for sure but this is a possibility.

Perhaps Higgins feels that an interrupted dribble is (as some assert) only an accidental loss of control and that a volunatary cessation of the dribble is not an interrupted dribble. Thus the player left the court while dribbling but he waited until the player touched it again to ensure that it was not a pass.

The reason I asked was it is against the rules to go out of bounds on your own and be the first to touch the ball in certain situations. Usually the situation is described as going around a set screen on the baseline. The rule is not much different than the NF Rule, but should only be called when the player is the first to touch the ball. So maybe his call was based on this rule, not a backcourt violation. Now I am not talking about a situation where someone just steps out of bounds, I am talking about a situation where someone purposely goes out of bounds to gain an advantage. That probably would be a stretch, but that is the best I can come up with.

Peace

Then why wouldn't the violation be called immediately when he went OOB?

Because it's not a violation until he's first to touch the ball after coming back in. This is different from the nfhs rule.

BTW, I didn't see the play, was this the call?

I didn't see it but he evidently signaled the palming/BC violation hand signal.

it would only be a violation if he's either dribbling at the time or (unless I'm mistaken about the NCAA rule) is the first to touch the ball after returning. The question of whether the last touch on the ball was a dribble or a sloppy bounce pass is often deferred the ball is next touched (by the original player or another player).

Well, there aint no signal for being the first to touch the ball after going OOB on your own volition...BC violation signal seems a decent way to communicate what's going on.

The player definitely didn't go out of bounds on his own volition because he was pretty much by himself. He would have no reason (gain an advantage) to go out of bounds. Is the NBA rule different then HS & College?

Okay I just watched the play on mmod.ncaasports.com

If you want to watch it just register and you can watch any part of any game!

Go to the Florida game and click on Archive Video. Drag the slider to 29:05/01:59:03. The play is at the 9:11 mark in the 1st half.

After watching the replay I'm pretty sure that this rule was kicked. The funny thing is that there was probably 2 people in the building that knew it. No one said a word about it (as I would expect).

Does anyone know if this used to be the rule along time ago?

If this happens at the end of the game do you fix it or leave it alone if your his partner?

[Edited by All_Heart on Mar 17th, 2006 at 05:06 PM]

Simple rule
 

A player may not be the last to have control inbounds, leave the court, re-establish inbounds status and be the 1st to touch the ball. You stated that the player dribbled b4 going out--hence, he had control. If he just bats the ball in and goes out, he can be the 1st to touch.

Re: Simple rule
 

Sorry socalreff but this is incorrect. Control has nothing to do with it. Although your last sentence says that he can be the 1st to touch, I'm assuming that it was a typo.

Sit.
A1 grabs the ball while falling out of bounds. Both of his feet are planted to the floor while he throws the ball to the floor inbounds. He then falls out of bounds. A1 then reestablishes himself back in bounds and picks up the ball. A1 has legally started a dribble and ended the dribble.

[Edited by All_Heart on Mar 17th, 2006 at 05:18 PM]

Re: Re: Simple rule
 

I don't have the book handy, but I am absolutely certain of this rule, having looked it up after it happened to me in a game. It's in the case book. If the player was the last to touch before going out and the 1st to touch upon re-entering, it is completely legal if he never had control. However if he had control before going out, he cannot be the last and 1st to touch. That is what Burr was signalling.

A little help?

I went to mmod.ncaasports.com and the page just said "Coming soon". So I went to ncaasports.com and I can't see where to register for this thing.

Thanks

My bad Dan, go to http://www.ncaasports.com/mmod

Then register, but you might want to say your from China so that your local games aren't blackout.

Re: Re: Re: Simple rule
 

I'd love to see this case play because I know that your misreading it. The case play probably is talking about someone that is dribbling that goes out of bounds on their on volition. This is illegal, but going out because of your momentum is legal.

Show me in the rule book where Burr's signal is located because I can't find it :)

Rule item
 

pg. BR 112 Article 1 in college book explains difference between control and no control---illegal vs. legal.

thanks.

I'm waiting in line. They were nice enough to tell me if I had a VIP registration there wouldn't be a line.

What's that? Pay service?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Simple rule
 

The mechanic is simply out of bounds violation. Stop clock, signal direction. ;)

I guess but when I did it I was 72 but it only took like 2 minutes.

Re: Rule item
 

A.R. 1. A1 blocks a pass near the end line. The ball falls to the floor in bounds but A1, who is off balance, falls outside the end line. A1 returns, secures control of the ball, and dribbles.

RULING: Legal. A1 has not left the playing court voluntarily and was not in control of the ball when leaving the playing court. This situation is similar to one in which A1 makes a try from under the basket and momentum carries
A1 off the playing court. The try is unsuccessful, and A1 comes onto the playing court and regains control of the ball.

_____________________

This means that the player was not in control of the ball when OOB.

NFHS Page 51 (Case book section), 7.1.1. Situation D "A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court. A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds, (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble.
Ruling: Legal in (a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after PICKING up the ball is an illegal dribble violation.


In this play the player has control when he catches the ball. The player is allowed to re-establish himself and grab the ball.

Did you get it to work and see the play?

No, I didn't get in, after a few minutes waiting the window closed.

I'm gonna try tomorrow morning before the games start.

Thanks again.

I took a look at it. THe first announcer said he called a carry. The next guy brought up this other inbounds/out of bounds explanation. The video is hard to see that IB/OB making any sense. Can't really see a carry in there though either.