The 3-point two-step - Is this a travel?

[Jimgolf]

Player catches pass near 3 point line with both feet on the floor. Places one foot behind the 3 point line, then the other, then shoots.

I seem to see this every game, but I haven't seen it called as a violation. Shouldn't this be a travel or am I missing something?

[SmokeEater]

Catches the ball and has possession with both feet on the floor. First step establishes pivot foot, second step establishes a travel.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
Player catches pass near 3 point line with both feet on the floor. Places one foot behind the 3 point line, then the other, then shoots.

I seem to see this every game, but I haven't seen it called as a violation. Shouldn't this be a travel or am I missing something?

If you haven't been calling it, then yes, you've been missing something and yes, it's traveling.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Mar 14th, 2006 at 10:03 AM]

[Junker]

I had tons of conversations with other officials on this matter. I tend to call this alot. I seem to see this violation a lot in the upper levels (college and bigger HS). The conversations I had with other officials seemed to revolve around advantage/disadvantage. To me, it's a huge advantage to get your feet set for a 3 try, not matter how big and strong the players are. I know I booted one in a college game this season. Player caught the ball with both feet on the floor, jumped forward landing on both feet, and then went up for the shot. I called the travel and I shouldn't have. Good discussion by the way.

[johnny1784]

Originally posted by Junker
I had tons of conversations with other officials on this matter. I tend to call this alot. I seem to see this violation a lot in the upper levels (college and bigger HS). The conversations I had with other officials seemed to revolve around advantage/disadvantage. To me, it's a huge advantage to get your feet set for a 3 try, not matter how big and strong the players are. I know I booted one in a college game this season. Player caught the ball with both feet on the floor, jumped forward landing on both feet, and then went up for the shot. I called the travel and I shouldn't have. Good discussion by the way.

Why do you feel you should not have called a travel?

[Raymond]

Originally posted by johnny1784

Why do you feel you should not have called a travel?

same here...catches ball with 2 feet on floor then jumps forward, lands and jumps again to shoot...why wouldn't that be a travel????

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Junker
I know I booted one in a college game this season. Player caught the ball with both feet on the floor, jumped forward landing on both feet, and then went up for the shot. I called the travel and I shouldn't have. Good discussion by the way.

This is traveling my friend. This is not a legal jump stop. It's never legal to jump off both feet and land without getting rid of the ball while airborne.

Think about it! A1 catches the ball with both feet on the floor. He jumps to shoot but B1 jumps to block the shot but doesn't touch the ball. A1 returns to the floor with the ball.

Same play. Traveling.

[Junker]

The way I looked at it (after postgame discussion) was that he caught the ball down, established a pivot foot with the first hop and then went up for the shot. The coach was right behind me when I called it and he politely told me it wasn't a travel (this was a college JV game). The conversations I had with that particular coach in the game made me really think about it again. He knew the game well. This same situation is one I don't seem to see called in alot of college and upper level HS games. Like I said earlier, it seems that I'm calling this travel a lot more than other officials I see and work with. Either I'm good at getting this, or I'm not seeing things correctly and I'd like to make sure I'm getting it right.

[Raymond]

Originally posted by Junker
The way I looked at it (after postgame discussion) was that he caught the ball down, established a pivot foot with the first hop and then went up for the shot. The coach was right behind me when I called it and he politely told me it wasn't a travel (this was a college JV game). The conversations I had with that particular coach in the game made me really think about it again. He knew the game well. This same situation is one I don't seem to see called in alot of college and upper level HS games. Like I said earlier, it seems that I'm calling this travel a lot more than other officials I see and work with. Either I'm good at getting this, or I'm not seeing things correctly and I'd like to make sure I'm getting it right.

The way you described the play originally you called the play right. Now if you were to say he caught the ball in the air then hopped.......well, now I need to go to the rulebook on that. I'll look up jump-stops and travels on my lunch break.

[All_Heart]

Originally posted by Junker
The way I looked at it (after postgame discussion) was that he caught the ball down, established a pivot foot with the first hop and then went up for the shot. The coach was right behind me when I called it and he politely told me it wasn't a travel (this was a college JV game). The conversations I had with that particular coach in the game made me really think about it again. He knew the game well.

Your right he probably knows the game well but not the rules!

Originally posted by Junker
This same situation is one I don't seem to see called in alot of college and upper level HS games. Like I said earlier, it seems that I'm calling this travel a lot more than other officials I see and work with. Either I'm good at getting this, or I'm not seeing things correctly and I'd like to make sure I'm getting it right.

You don't see it called a lot because it's not! I've had problems while moving up to higher levels (College) because I see a lot of travels but I don't call them because I don't want to be the only one on the court calling travels. Maybe when I'm an experienced vet I can call the game the way it ought to be called!

[Raymond]

Back from lunch.

NCAA Rule 4 Section 42. Jump Stop.
Art. 1. A jump stop is executed when a player catches the ball while moving
or dribbling with:
a. One foot on the playing court, jumps off that foot and lands simultaneously
on both feet (no pivot foot).
b. Two feet off the playing court, lands on one foot, jumps off that foot
and lands simultaneously on both feet (no pivot foot).
Art. 2. A jump stop may also be executed when the dribbler has one foot on
the playing court, initiates a jump off that foot, ends the dribble with both
feet off the playing court and lands simultaneously on both feet (either foot
can be established as the pivot foot).

Rule 4 Section 66 Art. 2. A player who catches the ball with both feet on the playing court
may pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot
foot.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Junker
Player caught the ball with both feet on the floor, jumped forward landing on both feet, and then went up for the shot. I called the travel and I shouldn't have.

Traveling was the right call.

NCAA rule 4-66-2-- "A player who catches the ball with both feet on the playing court may pivot, using either foot. when one foot is lifted, the other foot is the pivot foot".

NCAA rule 4-66-4(a)-- "After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot, the pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or a try for goal".

Your player caught the ball with both feet on the floor. When he jumped, one foot had to be lifted and the other foot must have become the pivot foot. When he then landed on both feet, you has a player who jumped off his pivot foot and then landed with the ball without passing or shooting.

That's a travel.

[rainmaker]

Both Junker's play and the original post are travels. And yes, it gets no-called a lot. I've had upper level college refs tell me it's a ticky-tack violation, and it should never be called. But it is still a travel.

[Junker]

I've agreed with everyone here. It's not called. As far as people telling Rainmaker it ticky-tack, I see where they're coming from...but (there's always a but). To me, any player, no matter how athleticlly gifted, is going to make many more shots with their feet in a good shooting position. Allowing them to get their feet set illegaly, to me, is a huge advantage to the shooter. I'd love to hear thoughts on this.

[Kostja]

In my opinion it should be called. Setting your feet illegally for a 3-pointer is an advantage, as much as using the same step to establish a better position with feet pointing towards the basket.