Can you say "suspension"?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rockyroad
Sounds like someone missed the point the author was making...

He usually does, DJ. While the rest of us realize that racism still exists in America today, we also understand that allegations are not always true. He sees one side of every discussion on racism, that if a person of color yells racism, it has to be true.

You didn't really expect that to change today, did you?

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

He usually does, DJ. While the rest of us realize that racism still exists in America today, we also understand that allegations are not always true. He sees one side of every discussion on racism, that if a person of color yells racism, it has to be true.

You didn't really expect that to change today, did you?

No, not really...the frustrating thing is that this coach pops off shortly after the game and makes accusations about the refs, and the refs cannot defend themselves. Like I said, the accusations are based on the coach's feelings, so how can you offer "proof" that they are wrong...it's inflammatory and, well, sickening.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Rut:

I do not know where to begin in a response to your response to my post, except to say that I am NOT (read my lips), NOT narrow minded.

I have been a liberal, prgressive, pro-union, radical left-wing Democrat all of my life; and I am an unabashed capitalist too. I will defend to the death your first amendent rights of free speech. Having clarified my position, I have no choice but to take you to task for playing the race card yourself.

Is there injustice in this county and the world? Yes there is. Is there racial hate, ethinic hate, and religious hate in this country and the world? Yes there is.

But I am sick and tired of people that want to move backward rather than forward.

I am sick and tired of people who want to be hyphenated Americans. Many, many people have worked very hard (including paying with their lives) to create a society that makes the color of a person's skin no more important that the color of the person's eyes or hair.

What I am saying applies to a person's sex, religious or lack of religious affiliation, sexual orientation, political party affiliation, and etc.

But until we stop wanting to be hyphenated Americans we will always have to deal with people who want to play the race card or any other type of card.

MTD, Sr.

[bebanovich]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I'm not a journalist, so this is an honest question. What more could she have done to establish his credibility? She tried to contact the coach. She did contact the officials. And she talked to "several" observers who had no rooting interest. Without being an eyewitness, what else should she do to verify/falsify the coach's claims?

She didn't necessarily have a rooting interest in the game (though she doesn't state this either way) but she clearly has a point-of-view on the topic. Her only statement establishing objective credibility of sources was to say "IÂ’ve spoken to lots of objective people." What does that mean? Are they from one of the schools or the newspaper? Are they objective because they are not there as fans or because you, as the writer consider them objective? Was their an "objective people" section and she took her sources from there? Lots? My high school journalism students don't get to come to me with that word - you use it when you're being mentally lazy or dishonest. I don't know why she isn't telling me more about her sources, too much work or they don't sound as objective on paper but that does not get through my filter. If I really want to wait for someone to verify/falsify coach's claims, I will wait for a news reporter and not a columnist. Even then, their work should pass the smell-test.

But can you please spare us the hand-wringing over "playing the race card" and the fake moralizing over not teaching kids that the world is unfair and that racism must be overcome. I think the hand-wringing is not about moralizing, but about being ticked off about FALSE accusations of racism. You don't see any hand-wringing when David Duke is drummed out of politics b/c the accusations of racism are true. You don't see any hand-wringing when Texaco is fined billions of dollars for failing to promote qualified black executives b/c the accusations of racism are true.

The hand-wringing is because it's wrong to accuse someone falsely of racism, just as it's wrong to discriminate solely on the basis of race. JMO, as always.

I could be wrong, but didn't the Texaco case involve audio tapes on the nightly news? If so, that's the kind of high bar for a smoking gun involving blatant racism that seems to be required to fend off "race card" calls - and I bet there were a few of those initially anyway. You are, of course, right about false accusations being damaging and I think the editorial board of the paper needs, at least, to take a look at their initial decision to publish the names of the officials.

I also stand by my opinion that none of us really knows the story yet and it seems a little premature to decry use of the "race card" in this instance. I think it's very appropriate to talk about whatever rules prohibit the coach from speaking out and to use those as a benchmark to determine inapproriateness of his actions. I just hate to see, especially premature, pounding of the term "race card" because it has the side-effect of silencing people when they are really the victims of racism. And it often won't be the kind of violent or hateful act you would have seen in 1965, it will be a subtle comment or stereotype or lowered expectation - the kind of thing that can have equally devastating effects over time and must be dealt with more openly.

[Edited by bebanovich on Mar 7th, 2006 at 04:44 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Yeah, great summary, Rut. In the words of an esteemed member of the forum, "If that is what you read into my statements you did not really read them."

Then I guess both of us misunderstand the issue. Remember, you agreed with the article and the claim that the comments by the coach were totally false. At least I am saying I have no idea to what took place. I was not there at all. All I can do is share with you my point of view and it is up to each person to draw their own conclusion.

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I didn't say they were never true. I'm not naive enough to think that racism has been completely eradicated from the world. However, in THIS case, the accusations seem to be untrue, and merely inflammatory.

So what if they are inflammatory. Who are the comments inflammatory to? They do not make me upset. I know others that would not only not be upset, but agree with the comments at their face value. This is after all a free country and anyone can make any claim they want to. If the coach feels that way, he has the right to make those claims. Now I would hope he has more evidence than just words. For all we know he might have some tape that backs up the actions or words from others about the comments from these officials. All we know right now is a he said, she said situation. If the coach violated some rules, he should be punished as well. The coach did not half to put the official's name in the paper.

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I understand that, too. I guess it seemed to me that you thought the author was accusing the refs of that bias against an inner-city team.

I did not say that at all. I said that it does not matter what the bias is, that bias can and is not greater than the claim of racism. According the author it sounds like we should never make a claim of racism and only push it under the rug. In my opinion that is the wrong message to send and much more irresponsible than anything the coach said.

Originally posted by ChuckElias
If you weren't saying that, then I misunderstood your comment. As far as I can tell, the author has made no accusation of any sort of bias against the refs, whether it be based on race, economics, class or whatever. That was the only thing I was trying to point out. If that was already clear to you, then my comments were unnecessary.

Once again, this is my opinion, you do not have to agree with my point of view or accept what I said in any way. I just think if people feel something they have the right to say it. It is very possible that this accusation of racism was just flat out wrong, but if that is how he feels he is not more wrong to call racism as he would to accuse the official of cheating for any other reason.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Rut:

I do not know where to begin in a response to your response to my post, except to say that I am NOT (read my lips), NOT narrow minded.

I have been a liberal, prgressive, pro-union, radical left-wing Democrat all of my life; and I am an unabashed capitalist too. I will defend to the death your first amendent rights of free speech. Having clarified my position, I have no choice but to take you to task for playing the race card yourself.

Is there injustice in this county and the world? Yes there is. Is there racial hate, ethinic hate, and religious hate in this country and the world? Yes there is.

But I am sick and tired of people that want to move backward rather than forward.

I am sick and tired of people who want to be hyphenated Americans. Many, many people have worked very hard (including paying with their lives) to create a society that makes the color of a person's skin no more important that the color of the person's eyes or hair.

What I am saying applies to a person's sex, religious or lack of religious affiliation, sexual orientation, political party affiliation, and etc.

But until we stop wanting to be hyphenated Americans we will always have to deal with people who want to play the race card or any other type of card.

MTD, Sr.

What you feel is "looking backwards" is my current life and a reality that I have to live with every day and many other Black people have to live with every day. I know you can probably avoid dealing with these issues on a regular basis, I cannot avoid those situations. A lot of times I am put directly in those situations by others based on what my skin color is. You are also not going to impress me by stating that you vote Democratic in an election either. If you knew enough about Black people you would realize that most are Democrats because of the actions of the Republican Party rather than not sharing many of the same views of Republicans. I know more Black people that are not supportive of gay issues, pro-gun control, and pro-death penalty and are more religious than anyone Pat Robertson can associate himself with. It is not about a card it is about reality. I know for many people who are in the majority bringing up race are a hassle because you do not have to deal with it. I just know that anytime I do something some that is white makes a comment or remind me of what is obvious when they look at me. Now tell me who plays the race card then?

Peace

[mick]

Thank you all for playing.