Here is a phiosophical question asked of me last night...

Is it possible for A1 to be called for a 5 second closely guarded situation while in the lane for all 5 seconds?

I can't imagine any game situation where I wouldn't have a 3 count first. I tried very hard (I thought for 5 minutes or so). And who's asking you these types of questions anyway???

Sure, if you count the 5 in metric seconds & the 3 in
normal units! :p

who can count that high???
 

I can't get to three.....but find a way to get to 5....just kidding....3 sec violation....no way can you call the 5 sec

Sure, if you count the 5 in metric seconds & the 3 in
normal units! :p
[/B][/QUOTE]

Allright, I've heard enough metric bashing. It's time for rebuttal...

1 kilometre = 1000 metres
1 metre = 100 centimetres
1 centimetre = 10 millimetres
1 millimetre = the tip of a ball point pen

See how easy this is...all multiples of 10. This works for weight and volume measures too.

Now you do the same comparing a mile to a yard to a foot to an inch (no calculators allowed).

Although it's not likely...
 

...technically, there's no reason why you couldn't. Given that a player in the lane may be given an allowance for moving for a goal, it is possible to have a 5 second count.

But I ain't callin' it! :)

Re: Although it's not likely...
 

Nobody gets an additional 2 seconds for a shot attempt. Wouldn't you have a 3 second call?

The guy brought this up because of a game he had.

He said the kid was in the lane for at leat 7 seconds, so he called a 3 second violation. The coach went nuts, rightfully so, because the kid was advancing to the basket (I wasn't there, but he agreed the kid was technically moving in). His thinking was the kid was in there for much longer than 3, so he bailed and took the easy way out.

Later in the game, the same thing happended, so instead of calling 3, he called a 5 second closely guarded.

Apparently the coach did not say one word.


I had never thought of this situation, but it is good to think about.

Re: Re: Although it's not likely...
 

Sure they do. If the player is attempting to get a shot off with numerous moves, pump fakes, etc., he does, most certainly, get an additional 2, 3, 4, 5 seconds or more

NF 9-7
<B>...Allowance shall be made for a player who, having been in the restricted area for less than three seconds, dribbles in or moves to try for goal.</B>

But a lot of rookie officials will ignore this rule and call three seconds.

Re: Although it's not likely...
 

So a kid can just pump fake til the shot clock runs out?

If a kid has the ball close to 3 secs then decides to "dribble in or move to try for goal" sure I give him the benefit of the rule but once his initial move or try is not successful and he starts another move, pump fake, or whatever...he has violated.

"Jimmy, since BktBallRef is doing the game tonight, when you get the ball in the key, just keep pump faking or pivoting until you get a good try for goal. He won't blow his whistle". (this touch of sarcasm is for the "rookie official" comment...not appreciated :mad: )

Re: Re: Although it's not likely...
 

Jeff -

I think that you would only want to call this if he passes out of the lane. If he/she is advancing to the bucket, you should let them go until:

1. they pass
2. they shoot

Multiple moves and or pump fakes are still part of advancing to the bucket.

didn't happen
 

JeffRef,
Tony wasn't rippin' you.
When he rips, he is usually much less subtle.
I think he was talking about generic rookie mistakes.
mick

Re: Re: Although it's not likely...
 

There is no shot clock where I officiate but I defy you to site a rule that states how long a player who is in the lane can pump fake.

Sure I will. TWEET! 5 seconds!

My comment wasn't meat to be critical of you. My comment was meant to point out that most rookie officials call 3 seconds more in one game than most veteran officials call it in a season. They don't know or, maybe it's that, they don't understand the rule. Evidently, that shoe fits you or you wouldn't have slipped it on.

If you get mad that easily, perhaps you should consider a new avocation. :(

Re: Re: Re: Although it's not likely...
 

Ah, the voice of a veteran. Next time you're in NC, let's work a few games, Brian! :)

OK, I will. One mile - the distance from your parking space to the gym in a blizzard. One yard - the distance A1 claims was between him and B1 when he got called for smacking B1 on the arm during a shot. One foot - the object that's usually out of the proper free throw box by all six players in the lane prior to the free throw. One inch - the size of a coach's ego after I whack him.

BTW - in pronouncing metre, do you pronounce the "r" and then the "e" is silent, or do you transpose the sounds of the letters at the end of the word? I'm still trying to figure out how to pronounce "centre". I'm just glad we don't have the positions "forwadr" and "guadr".

Also BTW - is it true that FIBA stands for "Foreign Interference in Basketball American"?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Although it's not likely...
 

Sure. O-hi-o is an OK place to call ball, but man it is not Indiana.

"But ref, I wasn't within a metre of him!"

Nah, doesn't work for me! :)

Here is the FIBA rule:

36.1.2
Allowance must be made for a player who:

• Makes an attempt to leave the restricted area.
• Is in the restricted area when he or his team-mate is in the act of shooting and the ball is leaving or has just left the player's hand(s) on the shot for a field goal.
• Dribbles in to shoot for a field goal after having been in the restricted area for less than three (3) seconds.

I started refereeing with FIBA rules but when I started reffing college I needed to learn NCAA rules. The rule seems to read a bit differently, but my interpretation has never changed and I've never had any problems at the college level (with this call anyway :) , ha, ha!). I see it called around here all the time without arguments from anybody.

Must be a regional thing! Something for our zone to discuss before the season starts in November.

Sorry for the snap Tony :) . I'll recind my remark based on mick's comment.

With all due respect, our FIBA brothers need to understand that 80% of the rules discussion on this site involves NFHS rules. NCAA rules are probably discussed about 15% of the time which leaves about 1 in 20 posts that involve, NBA, WNBA, FIBA, or other rules. You are more than welcome to discuss any rules but to lessen the confusion, you may want to consider mentioning that you're speaking in FIBA terms as there may be a different NF or NCAA interpretation of a very similiar rule.

Just MHO! Of course, Dan always says, "Tony, I don't read this board for your humble opinion!" I think he's implying that I have no humility! :)

i know it's a very small number of folks that are doing it, but with this last comment i can't remain silent any longer.

PLEASE STOP WITH THE FIBA RIPPING. we all understand by now that you think basketball is an american only sport (or at least the only basketball that counts is played on american soil). i didn't pay my money to read -- at least once in almost every thread -- some comment about Feeble or foreign basketball being inferior.

Enough already, we get it.

Jake

Jake - thank you. As one of the main targets of said ripping, I couldn't agree more.

Lets use this forum to educate ourselves. Surely American high school referees can learn something from FIBA refs, and I know I have learnt heaps from the experiences, and rule differences that I have read about.

So give it a rest, and concentrate on the similarities. I have no problem with pointing out the differences, but don't imply that <b>your</b> way is better than someone elses!

Phew....I'm done :)

I've re-read my previous post that you referred to and I don't see anything in it that demeans FIBA or anyone else. I simply pointed out that most of the discussion here involves NF or NCAA rules. SO, I simply suggested that if you bring a FIBA rule into a discussion, you may want to initially clarify that, especially when the rule is different than NF or NCAA.

BTW, sorry bub, but you didn't pay any money to post on this board and neither does anyone else. It's completely free. If you paid someone, you've been taken. If you guys are so thin-skinned that you can't take a little ribbing from someone on the other side of the world, how can you possibly ignore it on the court. Stop being so sensitive. :(

I used to get defensive
 

When I knew I was wrong. But now I just say "Oh, Shucks", or something to that effect.
And so it could be with some FIBA Officials. They seem overly sensitive and defensive about their rules. Do any other rules have as many protagonists as FIBA? The officials on this forum rip on all dumb rules, no matter whose book in which they are written.
Instead of excessively defending this , why don't we just say "Oh, shucks" and live with what we have to live with?
mick



[Edited by mick on Jul 1st, 2001 at 10:26 AM]

Also BTW - is it true that FIBA stands for "Foreign Interference in Basketball American"? [/B][/QUOTE]

Bsktbllref(Tony i think) -- i was not referring to your post, i guess from the time i read Mark Padgett's post (with the above remark) until the time i submitted my reply a few other people had written in. sorry for the confusion on that count. i still stand by my remarks (Being an American referee with a completely open mind) and i second Oz Refs follow up comments.

making fun of dumb rules from any code is one thing. i have no problem with that on this forum. But statements like the one at the top of the post are DEMEANING and should not be written in this forum.

Jake

Bsktbllref(Tony i think) -- i was not referring to your post, i guess from the time i read Mark Padgett's post (with the above remark) until the time i submitted my reply a few other people had written in. sorry for the confusion on that count. i still stand by my remarks (Being an American referee with a completely open mind) and i second Oz Refs follow up comments.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I gotcha. When you wrote last comment and mine was the last comment, I couldn't draw any other conclusion.

Tony