I was watching a game at camp, (I had on my stripes), sitting near the table. About half-way through the second quarter, a foul was called on B2, his fourth. As the table was busy writing it down,and the players on the floor were setting up for shots, Coach A came over to the table and said, "Can we put that onto number 35?" (The player who had committed the foul was 22). The table guy looked up uncertainly for a moment. Then he kind of looked around for help or back-up or something. The coach said, "I mean, otherwise, Tommy is going to foul out in the first half." (This kid was playing very roughly, and probably should have fouled our already). The table guy was just not sure what to do. I stood up and said, "No, you can't do that. If it's called on 22, it goes on 22" Then I started to sit down again. The coach said, "Cmon, it's just camp". I said, "Yes, but it's high school rules straight down, and that is not okay" (I didn't say, "If I have to wear these hot, long pants...") The table guy then turned to the game and the coach sat back down.

Questions: Was I wrong to interfere? Should I have reported it to the ref on the floor? If I were the ref in charge, and I heard that little conversation, what should I have done? Isn't it just unbelievable what poeple wwill try to get away with???

Answers:
Yes. No. Make sure the foul goes to #22. I'm no longer
surprised.

Okay, I goofed. I'll be less likely to repeat the mistake if someone can give me a good philosophical reason why it wasn't appropriate for me to stick in my oar. Would it be okay for a mom to interfere? Would the answers be different if this happened during the season? Should the table person report this to the ref? Why isn't what that coach did a technical foul? I can't find any book references to back up my actions, but this seems like cheating, and so it seems like there ought to be a penalty. Thanks for any help.

Some of the camps I have attended, we reported to a trash can. This sounds like the kind of camp this team needs to go to. If they have agreed to record fouls then #22 has to have the foul recorded to him. I had a game last fall where the foul count was 5-2 in the first half. You guessed it. All 5 were on the same player and he fouled out. We had a 2-1 foul count in the second half and it was wonderful.

As for the appropriatness of your actions, that is debatible. I would say wait until you are asked directly. I don't think this should have been reported to the officials on the floor but the scorer should have ignored the coach and did what is right. If the coach starts getting upset with it then the officials on the floor can handle it.

[Edited by Tim Roden on Jun 21st, 2001 at 09:17 AM]

I think it is up to the officials on the court to handle it. We don't benefit from people in the stands interacting with coaches and the table. Your motives were pure, but no good deed goes unpunished!

One of the burrs under my saddle are the ubiquitous fans who yell "the score is wrong" for days on end. Good grief, each team has umteen managers and assistants keeping stats/score ... if they have an objection, they won't keep it a secret.

Regarding the coach's actions ... he/she cannot be at the table for that reason (he/she can be there to request a timeout, but cannot implement the scoring change), so the officials need to inform him/her of that and get him/her back to the bench. Obviously, the table should not make a change without conferring with the officials

Any time a coach is at the table, I get in on the conversation. I try to protect the table folks from abuse, they (the table) can be a tremendous ally or a deadly enemy to a well-administered game, so I try to keep them on my side.

Yupper!
 

Dan,
You copied my answer sheet. :(

HS team camp we're working now has as some of it's rules:

<b><li>No five foul elimination on player.<li>...there will be no individual player statistics ... kept.
</b>mick

Re: Yupper!
 

Do the players know they can't foul out?

If so is that not potentially very risky

Re: Re: Yupper!
 

I don't know, Malcom. They don't foul out in their practices without officials.
And that is pretty much what team camps are. ;)
mick

It would be OK for a non-official mom to say whatever she feels like about this (non-offensive or abusive of course).

From the original post, the foul was on B and it was coach A that made the suggestion...sounds like a fair minded opponent trying to make the camp enjoyable for both side. Certainly not a T.

Still, it should be charged to the correct kid. Doing so will be of more help than charging it to another..he needs to learn what is a foul.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Jun 22nd, 2001 at 12:39 PM]

Oh, my, gosh!!! You're right that is what the post says and it's wrong. It was coach B that made the "suggestion" and that's why I was upset -- I felt he was cheating. Okay that explains the problem, why I was receiving answers I wasn't expecting. Or does it? Since it was Coach B, does that change anyone's answer, or was I still out of line?

I don't think it changes anything. Don't take it personally but you stuck your nose in where it didn't belong. Unless you're asked, stay out of it. You may not believe it but I have the same problem from time to time! :D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Oh, my, gosh!!! You're right that is what the post says and it's wrong. It was coach B that made the "suggestion" and that's why I was upset -- I felt he was cheating. Okay that explains the problem, why I was receiving answers I wasn't expecting. Or does it? Since it was Coach B, does that change anyone's answer, or was I still out of line?

My answer doesn't change. I figgered what you meant.

I knew when I asked that I'd get a real answer, and that's what I wanted. I don't take it personally. If I didn't have a pretty thick sckin by now, I'd be dead!

I didn't address it in my earlier post but I agree with the others. You should leave it alone and just watch the game.

Personally, I try to make sure I'm never wearing my stripes unless I'm actively working the game at hand.

Joe