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Re: Re: Re: Re: Do you T?

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Originally posted by rockyroad

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Originally posted by JugglingReferee

The extent of the injury is not known at the time of deciding to blow it dead or not. You can't say that you should have blown it dead immediately because she ended up with a concussion.

While the extent of the injury might not be known, in order to end up with a concussion something pretty serious must have happened...if an 8th grade girl goes down and her head slams into the floor and she lays there - stop the game for crying out loud. Err on the side of caution at that level...

Except that it was admitted that the official didn't see the player go down. Why limit to 8th grade girls? If anybody goes down and their head slams on the floor and they just lay there - stop the game.

Please tell me though, what happened that is "pretty serious"? Oh that's right - nobody with authority to legally stop the game knows, so they let the play go. If as you say, something serious did happen, and the officials did in fact see it, I trust my brethren to make the correct decision to stop the game.

Now, it is a different story with different variables, such a loud and repetitive screams, whimpering (sp?), body shakes, a loud noise (thump), etc.

Snake is right - no free pass.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Do you T?

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Originally posted by JugglingReferee

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Originally posted by rockyroad

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

The extent of the injury is not known at the time of deciding to blow it dead or not. You can't say that you should have blown it dead immediately because she ended up with a concussion.

While the extent of the injury might not be known, in order to end up with a concussion something pretty serious must have happened...if an 8th grade girl goes down and her head slams into the floor and she lays there - stop the game for crying out loud. Err on the side of caution at that level...

Except that it was admitted that the official didn't see the player go down. Why limit to 8th grade girls? If anybody goes down and their head slams on the floor and they just lay there - stop the game.

Please tell me though, what happened that is "pretty serious"? Oh that's right - nobody with authority to legally stop the game knows, so they let the play go. If as you say, something serious did happen, and the officials did in fact see it, I trust my brethren to make the correct decision to stop the game.

Now, it is a different story with different variables, such a loud and repetitive screams, whimpering (sp?), body shakes, a loud noise (thump), etc.

Snake is right - no free pass.

What are you talking about?

The OP said that HE didn't see what happened since the girl went down in the BC & he was L. But his partner DID blow it dead - you know, the brethren you're so trustful of? And the OP DID show restraint by not T'ing the coaches up after his partner blew it dead.

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I had a similar sitch in an 8th grade game. Girl goes down in backcourt, but I'm L and I don't see it. I'm just ahead of midcourt (there's a press on) and see both coach and assistant coach come off the bench THREE FEET ONTO THE FLOOR yelling at my partner. I was ready to blow and walk over and say, "That's a T for YOU and a T for YOU!" But my partner blew it dead (wrongly, the other team was driving by this point). I let him handle the situation. Girl left in an ambulance with a concussion half an hour later. Assistant keeps glaring at my partner and giving him crap for the no call. At this point, I don't think any T's would have helped anything at all. I shut the assistant up with some friendly advice, and we ended up with a 2 hour overtime game.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Do you T?

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Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Please tell me though, what happened that is "pretty serious"? Oh that's right - nobody with authority to legally stop the game knows, so they let the play go.

That's funny...seems that the OP's partner DID stop the game, so I guess he must have KNOWN something...in your haste to try to prove someone wrong, did you even bother to read the situation?

I wrongly assumed that the other official stopped the play to deal with the injured player because of the adamance of the coaches that came onto the court, rather than because of a late whistle.

I beg your forgiveness.

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Originally posted by JugglingReferee
I wrongly assumed that the other official stopped the play to deal with the injured player because of the adamance of the coaches that came onto the court, rather than because of a late whistle.

I beg your forgiveness.

Nope...no forgiveness. You shall now be hoisted by your petard (whatever the heck that is)...and while hoisted you will have to watch replays of all the Seattle Mariners vs. KC Royals games from the previous 5 seasons...that oughta teach ya something!!

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Originally posted by rockyroad

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Originally posted by JugglingReferee
I wrongly assumed that the other official stopped the play to deal with the injured player because of the adamance of the coaches that came onto the court, rather than because of a late whistle.

I beg your forgiveness.

Nope...no forgiveness. You shall now be hoisted by your petard (whatever the heck that is)...and while hoisted you will have to watch replays of all the Seattle Mariners vs. KC Royals games from the previous 5 seasons...that oughta teach ya something!!

I don't follow volleyball that much... are those teams bad?

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Originally posted by rockyroad
[/B]

You shall now be hoisted by your petard (whatever the heck that is)...and while hoisted[/B][/QUOTE]A "petard" was similar to a medieval grenade. It was a rudimentary explosive charge, usually in an iron container. To be "hoist on your own petard" meant that you blew yourself up while trying to ignite the charge to blow someone else up.

A more modern example would be Big Jim McBob and Billy Sol Hurok. They were "hoisted on their own petards" many, many times- i.e. <i>"We blowed 'em up reeeeeeal good"</i>.

End of today's lesson.

Re: Re: Do you T?

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

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Originally posted by mplagrow
I had a similar sitch in an 8th grade game. Girl goes down in backcourt, but I'm L and I don't see it. I'm just ahead of midcourt (there's a press on) and see both coach and assistant coach come off the bench THREE FEET ONTO THE FLOOR yelling at my partner. I was ready to blow and walk over and say, "That's a T for YOU and a T for YOU!" But my partner blew it dead (wrongly, the other team was driving by this point). I let him handle the situation. Girl left in an ambulance with a concussion half an hour later. Assistant keeps glaring at my partner and giving him crap for the no call. At this point, I don't think any T's would have helped anything at all. I shut the assistant up with some friendly advice, and we ended up with a 2 hour overtime game.

While we talk about letting the play continue after a player goes down you can & should stop play immediately when the injury seems severe or there's danger of further injury. An 8th grade girl on the floor who later gets taken away by ambulance for a concussion seems to be a good enough reason to stop play immediately. Especially since play was going in in her general area (you mentioned her team was being pressed in the BC). You guys did good by not T'ing either of these coaches up.

btw...how did it take a half hr for an ambulance to arrive?

She never lost consciousness, so there was a bit of hemming and hawing before game management finally acted on it. Probably 10-15 minutes went by before the ambulance was called.

The reason my partner waited to stop play was that she was conscious (crying) and there was no blood. You can never tell with a crying 8th grade girl how serious it is. In a packed gym, I don't think callings T's on coaches for being on the floor or whining a little afterward, given the emotion of the situation, was called for.

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Originally posted by Snake~eyes
I don't know what they were yelling but if they were yelling at your partner about a no call then I would have whacked both of them, that's just me. Just because my partner stops the play for injury doesn't mean they get a free pass. Being on the floor and yelling at an official is automatic IMO.

I couldn't tell (loud, packed gym) if they were yelling for the no-call or yelling for the game to stop. I think they wanted the stoppage, so I let it go.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Do you T?

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Originally posted by rockyroad

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

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Originally posted by rockyroad

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Originally posted by JugglingReferee

The extent of the injury is not known at the time of deciding to blow it dead or not. You can't say that you should have blown it dead immediately because she ended up with a concussion.

While the extent of the injury might not be known, in order to end up with a concussion something pretty serious must have happened...if an 8th grade girl goes down and her head slams into the floor and she lays there - stop the game for crying out loud. Err on the side of caution at that level...

Yep, my point exactly.

Ok, that's like 5 or 6 threads in a row where we have agreed...getting kinda scary. Pretty soon you're going to find yourself staying up late to catch the Mariners game from Seattle on satellite!

Rocky -- You don't know the half of it! Dan's on the verge of crossing over to what Pat calls "the other side"... Now THAT'S scary!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Do you T?

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Originally posted by rainmaker

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Originally posted by rockyroad

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Originally posted by Dan_ref

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Originally posted by rockyroad

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Originally posted by JugglingReferee

The extent of the injury is not known at the time of deciding to blow it dead or not. You can't say that you should have blown it dead immediately because she ended up with a concussion.

While the extent of the injury might not be known, in order to end up with a concussion something pretty serious must have happened...if an 8th grade girl goes down and her head slams into the floor and she lays there - stop the game for crying out loud. Err on the side of caution at that level...

Yep, my point exactly.

Ok, that's like 5 or 6 threads in a row where we have agreed...getting kinda scary. Pretty soon you're going to find yourself staying up late to catch the Mariners game from Seattle on satellite!

Rocky -- You don't know the half of it! Dan's on the verge of crossing over to what Pat calls "the other side"... Now THAT'S scary!!

What??? Dan's finally seen the light...it's about time!