Kind of a weird one

stick · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 23, 2006, 06:20pm

About 3 weeks ago I was doing a boys jv game. Team A scores a basket which puts them down 3 with less than 30 seconds left. My partner (we were doing a 2-man) is on the baseline and blows his whistle. I go to switch spots with him watching him and waiting to hear what the call is. He doesn't say anything to anyone and runs down to the other end!! I have both coaches screaming at me wanting to know what the call was and I couldn't answer them!! So I motion my partner to come over to explain his call. He said a player on team A grabbed the arm of a player on team B trying to get open for the inbounds pass. Then he ran back down to the other end!! So I got both coaches together and explained the call and that there is no bonus (away from the ball foul) and both were cool with it. After the game I told my partner in a nice way that he should have explained the call, not me. He admitted had a brain fart but for that night I gave him the benefit of the doubt since he's a second year official. Upon reflection perhaps I should have let him explain everything. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks

mplagrow · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 23, 2006, 06:47pm

Quote:

Originally posted by stick
About 3 weeks ago I was doing a boys jv game. Team A scores a basket which puts them down 3 with less than 30 seconds left. My partner (we were doing a 2-man) is on the baseline and blows his whistle. I go to switch spots with him watching him and waiting to hear what the call is. He doesn't say anything to anyone and runs down to the other end!! I have both coaches screaming at me wanting to know what the call was and I couldn't answer them!! So I motion my partner to come over to explain his call. He said a player on team A grabbed the arm of a player on team B trying to get open for the inbounds pass. Then he ran back down to the other end!! So I got both coaches together and explained the call and that there is no bonus (away from the ball foul) and both were cool with it. After the game I told my partner in a nice way that he should have explained the call, not me. He admitted had a brain fart but for that night I gave him the benefit of the doubt since he's a second year official. Upon reflection perhaps I should have let him explain everything. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks

He called a foul and didn't report it to the table? Huh? No bonus on a foul away from the ball? Huh?

JugglingReferee · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 23, 2006, 06:54pm

I've had similar things happen when "I was you."

I handled it in a way such as to not bring attention to the young official. Take the lead, report the foul, and continue on.

Talk to him after the game.

SMEngmann · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 23, 2006, 07:00pm

Just a question, did you ever get the number of the kid who fouled and report it? If you guys lost the number and nobody had any definite information on who fouled, how did you take care of that? If I were there and this happened to me, I'd probably report the foul as a team foul and not charge any individual since we didn't know who committed the foul. Does anyone here have a reference that would give a better way of handling this situation?

CaliOne · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 23, 2006, 07:03pm

New high school rule, at least here in california: if a foul is committed by any player of the team with control of the ball, there are no free-throws, if other team is in bonus. I've never heard of "away from the ball foul" no free throws. Anyway, after team A scores a bucket, they should be on defense for the throw in, so it couldn't have been a team control foul either. Maybe some more clarification on that one.

mplagrow · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 23, 2006, 07:31pm

That rule changed everywhere, Cali. Also, there is no team control on a throw-in, so you're shooting bonus regardless of who fouled whom.

Jurassic Referee · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 23, 2006, 07:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by stick
About 3 weeks ago I was doing a boys jv game. Team A scores a basket which puts them down 3 with less than 30 seconds left. My partner (we were doing a 2-man) is on the baseline and blows his whistle. I go to switch spots with him watching him and waiting to hear what the call is. He doesn't say anything to anyone and runs down to the other end!! I have both coaches screaming at me wanting to know what the call was and I couldn't answer them!! So I motion my partner to come over to explain his call. He said a player on team A grabbed the arm of a player on team B trying to get open for the inbounds pass. Then he ran back down to the other end!! So I got both coaches together and explained the call and that there is no bonus (away from the ball foul) and both were cool with it.

Unfortunately, you got penalty wrong on that one- unless you were using NCAA rules in a JV game. If team B was in the bonus, then they shoulda shot the bonus. There is no player or team control on a throw-in . See NFHS rule 4-12-6. Also look at the "COMMENTS on the 2005-06 REVISIONS" in the front of this year's case book. Take a look at 4.19.7SitC at the bottom of that page.

CaliOne · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 23, 2006, 07:39pm

Your right mplagrow, thanks for the clarification. I probly would have ******* that up on my next throw-in foul.

Adam · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 23, 2006, 08:05pm

I think stick meant that since it was an off the ball foul and they weren't yet in the bonus, there were no shots.

stick · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 24, 2006, 01:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mplagrow

Quote:

Originally posted by stick
About 3 weeks ago I was doing a boys jv game. Team A scores a basket which puts them down 3 with less than 30 seconds left. My partner (we were doing a 2-man) is on the baseline and blows his whistle. I go to switch spots with him watching him and waiting to hear what the call is. He doesn't say anything to anyone and runs down to the other end!! I have both coaches screaming at me wanting to know what the call was and I couldn't answer them!! So I motion my partner to come over to explain his call. He said a player on team A grabbed the arm of a player on team B trying to get open for the inbounds pass. Then he ran back down to the other end!! So I got both coaches together and explained the call and that there is no bonus (away from the ball foul) and both were cool with it. After the game I told my partner in a nice way that he should have explained the call, not me. He admitted had a brain fart but for that night I gave him the benefit of the doubt since he's a second year official. Upon reflection perhaps I should have let him explain everything. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks

He called a foul and didn't report it to the table? Huh? No bonus on a foul away from the ball? Huh?

It's a new rule in Michigan. An off the ball foul (moving screen, etc.) the other team takes it out of bounds instead of shooting bonus. Like I said my partner had a brain fart so I reported the foul, explained to the coaches, and did the ensuing throw-in.

bob jenkins · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 24, 2006, 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by stick

Quote:

Originally posted by mplagrow

Quote:

Originally posted by stick
About 3 weeks ago I was doing a boys jv game. Team A scores a basket which puts them down 3 with less than 30 seconds left. My partner (we were doing a 2-man) is on the baseline and blows his whistle. I go to switch spots with him watching him and waiting to hear what the call is. He doesn't say anything to anyone and runs down to the other end!! I have both coaches screaming at me wanting to know what the call was and I couldn't answer them!! So I motion my partner to come over to explain his call. He said a player on team A grabbed the arm of a player on team B trying to get open for the inbounds pass. Then he ran back down to the other end!! So I got both coaches together and explained the call and that there is no bonus (away from the ball foul) and both were cool with it. After the game I told my partner in a nice way that he should have explained the call, not me. He admitted had a brain fart but for that night I gave him the benefit of the doubt since he's a second year official. Upon reflection perhaps I should have let him explain everything. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks

He called a foul and didn't report it to the table? Huh? No bonus on a foul away from the ball? Huh?

It's a new rule in Michigan. An off the ball foul (moving screen, etc.) the other team takes it out of bounds instead of shooting bonus. Like I said my partner had a brain fart so I reported the foul, explained to the coaches, and did the ensuing throw-in.

The new Team Control Foul rule applies (almost) everywhere. And, if it was during the throw-in, as you indicate, there was no TC so there should have been FTs (if the offended team was in the bonus).

stick · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 24, 2006, 01:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by SMEngmann
Just a question, did you ever get the number of the kid who fouled and report it? If you guys lost the number and nobody had any definite information on who fouled, how did you take care of that? If I were there and this happened to me, I'd probably report the foul as a team foul and not charge any individual since we didn't know who committed the foul. Does anyone here have a reference that would give a better way of handling this situation?

Yes I got the number & reported the foul.

stick · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 24, 2006, 01:26pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
I've had similar things happen when "I was you."

I handled it in a way such as to not bring attention to the young official. Take the lead, report the foul, and continue on.

Talk to him after the game.

That's exactly what I did.

CaliOne · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 24, 2006, 01:28pm

Stick, Im not from Michigan, but I think you are confusing a team control foul for an off the ball foul. Check into it.

Jurassic Referee · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 24, 2006, 01:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by stick

Quote:

Originally posted by mplagrow

Quote:

Originally posted by stick
About 3 weeks ago I was doing a boys jv game. Team A scores a basket which puts them down 3 with less than 30 seconds left. My partner (we were doing a 2-man) is on the baseline and blows his whistle. I go to switch spots with him watching him and waiting to hear what the call is. He doesn't say anything to anyone and runs down to the other end!! I have both coaches screaming at me wanting to know what the call was and I couldn't answer them!! So I motion my partner to come over to explain his call. He said a player on team A grabbed the arm of a player on team B trying to get open for the inbounds pass. Then he ran back down to the other end!! So I got both coaches together and explained the call and that there is no bonus (away from the ball foul) and both were cool with it. After the game I told my partner in a nice way that he should have explained the call, not me. He admitted had a brain fart but for that night I gave him the benefit of the doubt since he's a second year official. Upon reflection perhaps I should have let him explain everything. Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks

He called a foul and didn't report it to the table? Huh? No bonus on a foul away from the ball? Huh?

It's a new rule in Michigan. An off the ball foul (moving screen, etc.) the other team takes it out of bounds instead of shooting bonus. Like I said my partner had a brain fart so I reported the foul, explained to the coaches, and did the ensuing throw-in.

No it's not. If it is a new Michigan rule, it's strictly a local rule and not one certified by the MHSAA for high school ball. Someone is simply mis-interpreting the new team control foul rule, methinks. There is no team control during a throw-in.

If I were you, I'd find a rules interpreter in your area and go over that one with him.