Blind pick -

[ColdShot]

Hi,

Defender has "hands up", offensive player sets
a blind pick less than a step behind the defender,
defender turns (doesn't complete a step). Screener
takes elbow to face.

Is there a foul? Who is it on?

Thanks!

Bill

[rainmaker]

HTBT.

If defender keeps hands up, and the elbow is basically a straight arm, I've got nothing. If the defender was bringing the hands down and the elbow was bent, well, maybe. I'd have to see it to call it.

[All_Heart]

You said it yourself an illegal screen. Foul is on the screener.

But it would help to see the play.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker
HTBT.

If defender keeps hands up, and the elbow is basically a straight arm, I've got nothing. If the defender was bringing the hands down and the elbow was bent, well, maybe. I'd have to see it to call it.

Hmmm...isn't there something in the book about the screened player needing to be able to take a normal step in these situations?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Hmmm...isn't there something in the book about the screened player needing to be able to take a normal step in these situations?

Yea, but that's why I'd want to see it. I'm not sure how I'd define a "full step", and I'd want to see the movement of the defender, and the distance between, to see if I'd call anything. I can't imagine calling an elbow in this case, unless there was a deliberate attempt.

[ColdShot]

"Yea, but that's why I'd want to see it. I'm not sure how I'd define a "full step", and I'd want to see the movement of the defender, and the distance between, to see if I'd call anything. I can't imagine calling an elbow in this case, unless there was a deliberate attempt."

Assume there is no full step, the distance is six inches, both players had come to a complete stop when the screen is set and the defender never saw the screener, so there is no "deliberate attempt".

Does it matter if the arms are strait up or slightly bent? The defender can extend his/her arms, right?
This is a fundamental defensive posture taught to kids from
age 6 on: "keep your hands up on defense".

This isn't a verticallity issue since it's a blind screen, right?

Thanks again.

[stick]

Originally posted by ColdShot
Hi,

Defender has "hands up", offensive player sets
a blind pick less than a step behind the defender,
defender turns (doesn't complete a step). Screener
takes elbow to face.

Is there a foul? Who is it on?

Thanks!

Bill

I'd have to see it also. Just from what i know If the person who got picked threw his elbow out then the foul is on him/her. If the person who got picked didn't throw his/her elbow I have nothing. That person should be pissed at his/her teammate for not calling out "PICK"

[ColdShot]

"I'd have to see it also. Just from what i know If the person who got picked threw his elbow out then the foul is on him/her."

Again, defender doesn't see screener. It is a blind pick.
He isn't throwing an elbow. He doesn't even know the screener is there. That's the point.

Originally posted by stick

I'd have to see it also. Just from what i know If the person who got picked threw his elbow out then the foul is on him/her. If the person who got picked didn't throw his/her elbow I have nothing. That person should be pissed at his/her teammate for not calling out "PICK"

[Adam]

If you have a blind screen without the required distance, you should not have a foul on the screened player without discernable intent. He could turn with a knee to the groin and an elbow to the face of the screener and he's not liable. Now, if it puts the defense out of position, you could easily have a foul on A2 (the screener).

[stick]

Originally posted by ColdShot
"I'd have to see it also. Just from what i know If the person who got picked threw his elbow out then the foul is on him/her."

Again, defender doesn't see screener. It is a blind pick.
He isn't throwing an elbow. He doesn't even know the screener is there. That's the point.

I have nothing in that case (so long as it's not moving). If I'm the defender who received the blind pick I'd be PISSED at my teammate for not calling out the pick!!

[ColdShot]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
If you have a blind screen without the required distance, you should not have a foul on the screened player without discernable intent. He could turn with a knee to the groin and an elbow to the face of the screener and he's not liable. Now, if it puts the defense out of position, you could easily have a foul on A2 (the screener).

Sorry to have kept fishing, but this was what I was looking
for. Well stated. Thanks.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by ColdShot
Defender has "hands up", offensive player sets
a blind pick less than a step behind the defender

This is an illegal screen - if it's completely "blind", which I take to mean "from behind".

[Red_Killian]

Illegal screen by definition, when screening a stationary opponent from behind, the screener must allow the opponent one normal step backwards without contact. OP said from behind, no complete step. Team control foul, plus the elbow to the face. Screener responsible for contact.

[Forksref]

The way the shots went last night, I think we had some blind shooters. Is that a foul?