FT - ball gets away from shooter

[Rich]

The other night we had a FT situation -- shooter had the ball and was dribbling. Ball gets away from him and he steps in to the lane to get the ball. I blew the whistle to reset the free throw.

On a timeout, both of my partners told me I should've continued the 10-count. Now, I know I handled this right by the case book play, but I wanted to ask this question: Has this interpretation changed in the past? Both partners insisted (after I showed them the play in the case book) that it used to be called differently.

[tjones1]

If the throw to the shooter from the official is bad, you blow it and reset it. However, if he received the ball clean and it was his fault for losing the ball and the player left the semi-cirle, that's a violation.

Maybe I'm missing reading something...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tjones1
If the throw to the shooter from the official is bad, you blow it and reset it. However, if he received the ball clean and it was his fault for losing the ball and the player left the semi-cirle, that's a violation.

Maybe I'm missing reading something...

Yup, you're missing reading case book play 9.1.1(b).

"A1, at the free throw line to attempt a free throw (a)muffs the pass from the official and it rolls forward; or (b)accidentally drops the ball before the throwing motion is started.
RULING: In (a) and (b), the official should sound the whistle to prevent any violations and then start the free throw procedure again.

Rich done good.

Fwiw, Rich, it's been in the book that way as long as I can remember. I just looked at the 2000-01 casebook, and it's in there.

[Snake~eyes]

I agree with Mr. Smartpants.

[de la hoops]

but is it a violation if the shooter dropped the ball and stepped into the lane to get it BEFORE the whistle was blown? in other words, the shooter violated before the official could prevent it.

[tjones1]

If he's dribbling, I wouldn't call that accidentally dropping the ball. That's what I was trying to say.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by de la hoops
but is it a violation if the shooter dropped the ball and stepped into the lane to get it BEFORE the whistle was blown? in other words, the shooter violated before the official could prevent it.

One of the vets here once said to not go looking for mucous hanging off someone's nose. No, don't call it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tjones1
If he's dribbling, I wouldn't call that accidentally dropping the ball. That's what I was trying to say.

Tanner, would you call it any different though if the FT shooter lost the ball while dribbling it? You wouldn't re-set that also?

[Rich]

Originally posted by tjones1
If he's dribbling, I wouldn't call that accidentally dropping the ball. That's what I was trying to say.

I don't see any justification for calling it anything else. Dropped, fumbled, whatever -- it was before starting the throwing motion. The intent of the rule and case play is to not penalize the thrower before the throw UNLESS there is a delay situation (enters the semicircle after the resuming of play procedure or walks with the ball out of the semicircle).

As soon as the ball was out of the reach of the thrower, I blew the whistle and reset. Not sure whether he even had time to step into the lane to get it. Amazing I had mywhistle in my mouth, cause I usually don't on the first of 2 FTs, especially in 3-person, where I don't have the subs coming in.

The problem my partners had with it was that they said that a FT shooter could wait 9 seconds and then just fumble the ball intentionally to avoid a violation.

Since the official counting is behind the thrower, though, and since I've called exactly one 10-second violation in thelast 19 years, I just don't see that as being a problem.

Matter of fact, my partners were surprised when I said I usually don't even maintain a count, just flick my wrist for show. I was only half-kidding

--Rich

[tjones1]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Tanner, would you call it any different though if the FT shooter lost the ball while dribbling it? You wouldn't re-set that also?

JR,

As I'm reading it, it says drops the ball, as if the player was holding it. I'm probably reading too much into it, however I don't see how dribbling - intentionally dropping the ball - and accidentally dropping the ball are connected.

I thought I remembered us talking about this last year. In regards to the players "show-boating" by going behind his back before the shot. The question that was raised was what if it struck off the back of his foot and went out of the semi-circle. If I remember correctly, I think we concluded that the 10-second count would continue and that if the ball was outside the free throw line extended and outside the three-point arc that a player could give it back to the shooter. However, if it was inside that area or in the lane, it would be a violation.

Anyone else remember discussing this?

Or, it could just simply be said I'm reading too much into it JR, if that's the case... that's all I need!

Thanks again.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tjones1
[/B]

As I'm reading it, it says drops the ball, as if the player was holding it. I'm probably reading too much into it, however I don't see how dribbling - intentionally dropping the ball - and accidentally dropping the ball are connected.

[/B][/QUOTE]The problem that I have with making a call like that is having to judge intent on the part of the FT shooter. How do you really know for sure that he did it intentionally instead of accidentally? I do know that I ain't that smart. Jmo, but if there's any any doubt, I'll re-set it.

[Adam]

I think showboating and the normal dribbling process are two different things. If the kid's showboating (behind the back, through the legs, spinning the ball on his fingertip, etc.) and loses it I might start "looking for mucous."

[Jimgolf]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
I think showboating and the normal dribbling process are two different things. If the kid's showboating (behind the back, through the legs, spinning the ball on his fingertip, etc.) and loses it I might start "looking for mucous."

Why? Isn't it enough to officiate the game without crusading against hot dogs?