Hot Dog

BillyMac · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 16, 2006, 08:42pm

This play really happened a few weeks ago. I have discussed it with several officials and cannot seem to get a clear intepretation:

NFHS Rules. High school varsity game. Small, crowded gymnasium. Not much room outside the sidelines.

Point guard A1 passes to wing A2, who, unfortunately was making a V-cut toward the basket. I am the trail official and I know for sure that the ball will definitely go out of bounds on the sideline on the opposite side of the floor from me. My partner is the lead official and it's his sideline to cover. At that second, a fan, holding a hot dog from the concession stand, while trying to get back to his seat, while totally inbounds, both feet, on the playing surface, is struck by the ball which keeps it from going out of bounds. Player A2 comes back from his V-cut to pick up the loose ball and play continues. My partner and I were both dumb-founded, and allowed the play to continue with no whistle. No coaches complained. No parents complained.

Is there a call here? Is the fan treated like an offical on the court, as part of the floor? If a coach or substitute had been struck by a ball under the same circumstances, we could have called a technical foul for the coach being out of the coaching box or for a sixth player being on the floor.

Please cite an NFHS rule or case book reference. I am also willing to accept NCAA, FIBA, NBA, or WNBA citations. Help.

Back In The Saddle · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 16, 2006, 08:51pm

It is definitely a violation on the fan for being on the floor. The penalty is that he must hand over the dog and his coke to the official, after which he must return to his seat. Your responsibility, after collecting the dog and coke, is to initiate a switch because your hands are now full, but your partner's are not. Resume play using POI throw-in. NFHS rule 2-3.

mplagrow · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 16, 2006, 10:41pm

You have to ask the fan who he is cheering for. Then you must award the ball to the other team. If he is neutral, use alternating possession.

dave30 · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 17, 2006, 01:09am

I would call it out of bounds and state to the fan that it is the same thing as the ball hitting a basket on the side of the court that sometimes hangs over the playing surface. I wouldn't know for sure if I was right or wrong, but I would try to sound authoritative and then get on this forum and find out what I should have done!

WooPigSooie · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 17, 2006, 01:33am

As far as the ruling, wow, I have no clue. That is a good one. I would have probably done the same thing and said 'play on'.

If you are in a state where the state activities association has incidence reports (I'm sure all states probably have some form), I would definately write one for this. If because of the proximity of the stands to the court makes it inevitable for fans to walk on the court to get back to the bleachers, my state association can mandate that a row of bleachers be removed or something like that. Just a thought.

Corndog89 · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 17, 2006, 03:42am

I was calling a boys varsity game between two good teams (visitors went to the FL 4A state final four that year) in a cramped, packed small town Florida gym 4 years ago. Game management was usually hard to find in most of these gyms and this one was no exception.

Visiting team brings the ball in to start the 2nd half, swings it around the top to their best player (A1) in the corner who shoots a 3-pointer next to their bench. I'm C on that side standing right next to their coach. As A1 elevates, two kids about 8-9 years old come running in from the lobby across the corner of the floor right in front of and kind of up and under the shooter and then straight into the stands. There were no defensive players within 5-6 feet of A1. I wasn't sure what to do, but I didn't want to blow the whistle as he was going up for his shot and possibly deny him a 3-pointer. He missed the shot but his team got the rebound. As they took the ball back out top to set up their next play, the coach (a very good coach who focused much more on coaching than on ref-baiting) just looked at me in disbelief and asked what I was going to do. I told him I didn't want to deny the shot, and besides, I wasn't sure what to do. He actually said he had no idea either, and since his team got the rebound he seemed happy and let it go.

Are small town gyms the best or what?

ChrisSportsFan · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Feb 17, 2006, 01:33pm

If you are sure the ball is going OOB, I'd whistle it and we go the other way. If not sure if the ball is going to get OOB, I'd go with the posession arrow. If the home team coach doesn't like this then he needs to have his game management hold spectators out in the hall til the next dead ball and they all come in at once.