Had this one in a mens league game the other night:

Player from team A attempts shot, misses, crashes the offensive boards and creams player from team B. As lead, I whistle the foul but hear my partner's whistle a split second before mine. He has an away from the ball double foul on a couple of guys who just got tangled up. We agree that his whistle came first so we go to AP arrow for the double foul. Team A gets possession and team B is upset that team A gets to keep the ball even though I had the foul on the rebound. Anyone had something like this before? Done anything differently?

Pauli

Did you signal or give any hint as to what you were going to call? If not act like you both had the same thing and then go with his call. In this case it might not have worked since they were so far apart, but it mght have.

I just went up with the fist but everyone knew what I had. All I felt I could do was say that yes I had the rebound foul but that the other whistle cancelled mine.

This is not a double foul.

Once you've decided that your partner had the first whistle
your foul no longer happened because it was during a dead ball. In rare cases your foul might count, but only if
it was excessive or flagrant, then you would have a
false double foul, the second one being a T during the dead
ball. Of course, you would only really want to go with
this if the second foul was a big one & there was a
reasonable amount of time between the first & second
whistle.

Re-read it Dan. The double foul happened off the ball and was called by the trail official. The foul paulis called wasn't penalized.

Paulis, there's nothing you can do. Team B will just have to be upset. You handled it by the rules. They'll get over it.

Gees!
 

Talk about a 3 second attention span.

Re: Gees!
 

Oops. What was the question again?

The correct question is did the shot occure before the double foul occured. Because if there is an attempt on basket, you have to call all three fouls. Two shots and the AP.

Ok, reread question. both calls were non shooting. You did it right.

Tim,
Maybe not, in this case.
The shooter had already missed and was going after the rebound.
My guess is the try had ended.
mick

I like to call the off the ball stuff as much as anyone else does but in this case couldn't the trail have held his whistle for a split second on the double foul to let the play continue and see what happens? There is other, more important, action going on! Was the contact so severe that play needed to be stopped instantly? Could the tie up have been diffused verbally?

My spin on this is that coaches hate double fouls. Before calling one I always ask myself...do I really need to call that? Can I talk to those guys instead? What is the advantage/disadvantage for both teams? Normally by the time I've answered all those questions, the play is over and everybody's forgotten it anyway.

Without having seen the play, those would be difficult questions to answer. However, double fouls do have their place in the game. Whhen talking to them doesn't work, zing them both with a foul and you'll clean things up in a hurry.

And, stop asking yourself so many questions. ;)

Had a double foul situation last night in a boys varsity summer league game. Had 2 players going at each other -- both give and take about equal -- but it was quickly becoming a problem. I was the lead in a 3-man and I had already told both of them to knock off the crap, but they continued up and down the court so I called the double foul. Both guys looked at me like "what was that for"? No more problems with either guy. BTW, both coaches saw everything and both players were replaced and "counseled". I am not a big fan of the double foul, but it sure worked last night.

I find it works, I can't remember a time when I had trouble
with it. Of course, I don't call one every game but I would
if I had to.

Re: Gees!
 

lol :D

I was told at basketball camp that is one of the dumbest calls!! Something had to happen first. There are very few times where you want to call a double foul.

Don't believe everything they tell you at camp. Double fouls do occur. I don't think anyone here would disagree that there are very few times that you would want to call one, but they do occur.

I concur that there is a place for the double foul. Why did the NCAA have one in there POE film about four years ago? The key to being a good official is knowing when to use it. It should be very sparingly and only when there NEEDS to be a stopage of play but not a penalty given.

The last double foul I remember calling, I did get a film of the game and in it I saw that the action was instigated by one of the two players. It should have been a single foul but from where I was on the floor I couldn't see that the way the camera could, 20' above the floor.

There may be very few times when *you* might want to call
it, but as I already said it's an effective tool that I
have never had trouble with.

Yupper!
 

Dan,
I'm with you all the way.
Use as needed.
mick

I am going to address this play as if it were a rules test question and not get into a discussion about how to handle it during a real game because that is a whole different ballgame. I do believe that as a rules test question it serves as a good example for knowing our definitions.

A1 drives to the basket and shoots the ball while airborne. A1 then continues on in the air and makes illegal contact with B1 who had a legal position on the floor prior to A1 going airborne. A1's contact with B1 is a common foul under NFHS/NCAA rules. The ball does not necessarily become dead because of the A1's foul. The double foul by A2 and B2 does not complicate this play because the double foul was committed before the common foul by A1.

Under NFHS/NCAA rules this play is a false double foul. The double foul by A2 and B2 is the first foul in the play. The common foul by A1 against B1 is the second foul in the play. When a false double foul occurs, they are penalized in the order that they occurs, and the ball is put into play as if the last foul in the false double foul is the only foul that occurs.

Since the common foul by A1 is the last foul in the false double foul, we put the ball into play for that foul only.

Under NFHS/NCAA Women's rules, A1's foul is a player control foul, the ball became dead immediately. If the ball went through the basket, no score would count. Team B would get the ball out of bounds along the end line under Team A's basket for a designated spot throw-in.

Under NCAA Men's rules the ball does not become dead immediately. If the ball went through the basket, Team A would be created with a field goal. If Team B is in the bonus, B1 would go to the line for free throws. If Team B is not in the bonus, Team B would get the ball out of bounds along the end line under Team A's basket for a designated spot throw-in.

I apologize for my last posting because I did not read the play correctly. I thought that A1 made contact while still in the air on a drive to the basket. Oh well that is a good casebook play anyway. I guess I was having one of those senior moments that people of my age start to get.

I would like to welcome you to the Three Second Attention
Span Club. Here's your ID card, notice your serial number
is "2". All are welcome, except Mick. :p

Oh, Yeah?
 

I thought I was a flounding flounder.

I'll forgive you this senior moment, if you'll forgive me this question if it seems strange:

In your original post, you have two different rules references, one for NFHS/NCAA and one for NFHS/NCAA Women's. In the first, reference you call it a common foul, and in the second, PC. But I thought that under NFHS, this is PC for both boys and girls. Am I misunderstanding your references?

NFHS/NCAA
 

Jewel,
In the back of your NFHS Rule Book (pg.82-83), NFHS shows a relationship to High School, Women, Men.
Three different games in some places.
mick

someone in a men's league unhappy.....????
 

I can't imagine a player in a men's league being unhappy...aren't they just playing for recreation....?

Re: someone in a men's league unhappy.....????
 

I understand your sarcasm and appreciate it. Around here, the rule in men's leagues (at least, based on the reaction of the players when a foul is called on them) is - no reconstructive surgery, no foul.

BTW - we refer to men's leagues as "jerkball."