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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 08:47am
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Anyone know of any data that details 3 versus 2 person games and whether foul counts differ significantly?

Certainly you get a better look and guess less with 3 than 2 and there's a "tighter" focus on primarys, but there must be some "facts" and data somewhere.

Any help, greatly appreciated.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 08:57am
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I think an issue of Referee (2005, maybe 2004) had limited data from 2 or 3 states. I believe there was a small increase, but less than 1 or 2 per game. But don't quote me.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 09:50am
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Quote:
Originally posted by FrankHtown
I think an issue of Referee (2005, maybe 2004) had limited data from 2 or 3 states. I believe there was a small increase, but less than 1 or 2 per game. But don't quote me.
The increase, I believe, was less than one foul per game.

I suppose it depends on the crew involved. Some people call a lot of fouls. Working 3, each person should call 1/3 less, not feel like they are calling the same as they would in a 2-person game.

And you do "guess" less in 3 becasue you have more angles and areas better covered.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 10:44am
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The article appears in the October, 2005 issue of Referee Magazine.

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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 11:22am
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Well there should be more foul calls, only because we will see more, especially offball. But as peopel have said it wasn't too much more.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 11:34am
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I would think that the quality of the calls would improve, which would easily offset what might or might not be an increase in quantity.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 11:35am
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The NCAA did a study a number of years back about this, and it was found that in 3-person, the number of fouls called per game was 0.1 less than in 2-person. I see the study from time to time on the internet, or at camp discussions.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 11:35am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Snake~eyes
Well there should be more foul calls, only because we will see more, especially offball. But as peopel have said it wasn't too much more.
Why should there be more? Personally, I try to talk players out of off-ball stuff early. If players hear us and know we're watching, it cleans up the action. Well, except for the kid last night who kept sticking a knee into the post players behind. He didn't respond to talking. He wouldn't have in 2 or 3.

We don't call more fouls when we work 3. But we get better looks and the foul/no-foul decision is much easier to make when we have 3. And dead ball officiating is much improved with 2 extra eyes on the court.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 11:47am
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Why would anyone expect more fouls? The players adapt to how the game is called. The officials are trying to maintain the flow of the game. Ergo, the net effect should be relatively the same.

What might change, perhaps, is the types of fouls called, since officials have a different view of the action, but I think the players adjust soon enough and stop fouling that particular way.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 12:08pm
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I've been told that in 3 whistle the players are more inclined to clean up the off-ball stuff because it's more likely to get called. So in that regard, you have less whistles than you might think because it positively impacts how the game is played.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 12:45pm
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Yep, you will usually get a few more early that stops the frustration stuff that happens late. More of those rough play inducing fouls are being seen and called.

Players soon realize there aren't as many blind spots and stop the "extra" stuff that routinely gets missed in 2 person.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 01:22pm
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I think the main thing about 3 Person is that I believe you have more quality calls as compared to guesses in 2 Person games. I can see the entire play in a 3 Person game and I can know why I do not make a call rather than seeing the very end of a call in 2 Person which might completely wrong.

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