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-   -   Suggested FED rule changes (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/24664-suggested-fed-rule-changes.html)

assignmentmaker Wed Feb 01, 2006 04:07pm
Re: Re: Under the basket
 
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
At least in the NBA it's crisp. Heels on the dots, it's a block.
It's not nearly that simplistic.

Quote:
Is there language somewhere in the rules that addresses this? If there is, I've lost track and would appreciate the info.
Yes, 10.6.1 Situation D (last year's book).
What do you mean "it's not nearly that simplistic"? That the defender has to have obtained legal guarding position? Sure, I suppose. It is that simplistic for purposes of illustrating the existence of the real, painted-on dots and not real painted-on dots.

"Yes, 10.6.1 Situation D (last year's book)."

It's NOT in this year's book? What does it say, please?

Camron Rust Thu Feb 02, 2006 06:52am
Re: Re: Re: Under the basket
 
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
At least in the NBA it's crisp. Heels on the dots, it's a block.
It's not nearly that simplistic.

Quote:
Is there language somewhere in the rules that addresses this? If there is, I've lost track and would appreciate the info.
Yes, 10.6.1 Situation D (last year's book).
What do you mean "it's not nearly that simplistic"? That the defender has to have obtained legal guarding position? Sure, I suppose. It is that simplistic for purposes of illustrating the existence of the real, painted-on dots and not real painted-on dots.

"Yes, 10.6.1 Situation D (last year's book)."

It's NOT in this year's book? What does it say, please?
The NBA rule isn't that simple. There are a lot more factors to consider before it is a block...where did the drive come from, is the primary defender or a secondary defender, is the offensive player backing down or driving? The answers to these make a difference. It's far more complicated that the HS rule (if you call the HS rule as it is meant to be called...without regard to position on the floor).

ChuckElias Thu Feb 02, 2006 08:52am
Re: Re: Re: Under the basket
 
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
What do you mean "it's not nearly that simplistic"?
I meant that the rule is not simply, "If the defender is touching the semi-circle, any contact is a block," which is pretty much how you stated it. It's just not that simple.

1) The Restricted Area applies only to a secondary defender. A primary defender may stand anywhere on the court and draw a charge.

2) The Restricted Area rules do not apply at all if the play begins inside the Lower Defensive Box.

3) The Restricted Area rules do not allow an offensive player to ward off a defender with the free arm, even if the defender is in the RA.

4) The Restricted Area rules do not mandate that any contact must be called a foul. The official has the option to no-call the play if the contact is not severe enough to affect the play.

That's all I meant by "It's not nearly that simplistic." It's just not.

Quote:
"Yes, 10.6.1 Situation D (last year's book)."

It's NOT in this year's book? What does it say, please?
I'm sure it is in this year's book. But my copy of this year's book is in my bag. And I keep last year's book on my desk for reference. So I gave you the case play with last year's citation. The citation may be different in this year's book.

Sorry if my post rubbed you the wrong way.

assignmentmaker Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:38am
Re: Re: Re: Re: Under the basket
 
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
What do you mean "it's not nearly that simplistic"?
I meant that the rule is not simply, "If the defender is touching the semi-circle, any contact is a block," which is pretty much how you stated it. It's just not that simple.

1) The Restricted Area applies only to a secondary defender. A primary defender may stand anywhere on the court and draw a charge.

2) The Restricted Area rules do not apply at all if the play begins inside the Lower Defensive Box.

3) The Restricted Area rules do not allow an offensive player to ward off a defender with the free arm, even if the defender is in the RA.

4) The Restricted Area rules do not mandate that any contact must be called a foul. The official has the option to no-call the play if the contact is not severe enough to affect the play.

That's all I meant by "It's not nearly that simplistic." It's just not.

Quote:
"Yes, 10.6.1 Situation D (last year's book)."

It's NOT in this year's book? What does it say, please?
I'm sure it is in this year's book. But my copy of this year's book is in my bag. And I keep last year's book on my desk for reference. So I gave you the case play with last year's citation. The citation may be different in this year's book.

Sorry if my post rubbed you the wrong way.
No problem. As for rubbing - simple means simple. Simplistic is pejorative. I take it it was a slip of the tongue.

assignmentmaker Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:42am
Re: Re: Re: Re: Under the basket
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Camron Rust
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
At least in the NBA it's crisp. Heels on the dots, it's a block.
It's not nearly that simplistic.

Quote:
Is there language somewhere in the rules that addresses this? If there is, I've lost track and would appreciate the info.
Yes, 10.6.1 Situation D (last year's book).
What do you mean "it's not nearly that simplistic"? That the defender has to have obtained legal guarding position? Sure, I suppose. It is that simplistic for purposes of illustrating the existence of the real, painted-on dots and not real painted-on dots.

"Yes, 10.6.1 Situation D (last year's book)."

It's NOT in this year's book? What does it say, please?
The NBA rule isn't that simple. There are a lot more factors to consider before it is a block...where did the drive come from, is the primary defender or a secondary defender, is the offensive player backing down or driving? The answers to these make a difference. It's far more complicated that the HS rule (if you call the HS rule as it is meant to be called...without regard to position on the floor).
Absolutely.

All I'm concerned about is the reality that there is an imaginary 'restricted' area on the high school floor - in the minds of officials AND in the minds of coaches. But it's not the same size in these minds, and it doesn't take into account the matter of which directionthe offensive player is coming from. Among other things.

I find it to be a source of serious inconsistency and contention.

I'm interested in hearing of others' experience with this.

assignmentmaker Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:48am
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Under the basket
 
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
What do you mean "it's not nearly that simplistic"?
I meant that the rule is not simply, "If the defender is touching the semi-circle, any contact is a block," which is pretty much how you stated it. It's just not that simple.

1) The Restricted Area applies only to a secondary defender. A primary defender may stand anywhere on the court and draw a charge.

2) The Restricted Area rules do not apply at all if the play begins inside the Lower Defensive Box.

3) The Restricted Area rules do not allow an offensive player to ward off a defender with the free arm, even if the defender is in the RA.

4) The Restricted Area rules do not mandate that any contact must be called a foul. The official has the option to no-call the play if the contact is not severe enough to affect the play.

That's all I meant by "It's not nearly that simplistic." It's just not.

Quote:
"Yes, 10.6.1 Situation D (last year's book)."

It's NOT in this year's book? What does it say, please?
I'm sure it is in this year's book. But my copy of this year's book is in my bag. And I keep last year's book on my desk for reference. So I gave you the case play with last year's citation. The citation may be different in this year's book.

Sorry if my post rubbed you the wrong way.
No problem. As for rubbing - simple means simple. Simplistic is pejorative. I take it it was a slip of the tongue.
The reference appears to be 10.6.1(C) in this year's Casebook. It does address the 'under the basket' issue by referencing a defender standing BEHIND the plane of the backboard.

I understand the interpretation to say: "There are no dots, so don't be callin' the game as if there were." A noble sentiment, but, as I have noted, I don't see that happening, bigtime.

ChuckElias Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:45pm
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Under the basket
 
Quote:
Originally posted by assignmentmaker
simple means simple. Simplistic is pejorative.
I don't want to get into a war of words, but simplistic means "an instance of oversimplifying; especially : the reduction of a problem to a false simplicity by ignoring complicating factors". (And there is no negative connotation noted in the m-w definition.) This is what your description of the NBA rule did. Over-simplified by ignoring the complicating factors.

It wasn't a slip of the tongue, nor was it pejorative.

Your friendly neighborhood Grammar Guy. :)


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