Prep officials struggle to get games - Page 3

Rich · #31 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 03:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Part of what I failed to mention was that I had 15 years of experience before moving here. That probably greased the skids a bit with the local commissioners. Regardless, I had to make the contact with them.

I've taken on one of the 7-to-10 year officials and have worked a number of games with him the past few seasons, offering him pointers about moving up and being aggressive. Earlier this season, I talked to him and found out he's gotten a regular partner and a 20-game schedule this season. It's about attitude and mindset. You've hit the nail on the head, wl.

Why should veteran officials who work hard be punished? Since when should youth and inexperience trump veteran knowledge and experience?

I do know officials that have been working less than 10 years that are a lot better than officials that have 15+ years working. Not to say that applies to you, but not all veteran officials are what I would call quality officials. How good someone is can be very subjective.

Peace

It's subjective, so how can you possibly know who's "better"?

Sorry. I know what you mean.

I also know people who have been working 3 years who think they should be working 50 varsity games and the vets are just "old." Few officials are willing to pay ANY dues anymore. It took me a good 6-7 years before I worked a full varsity schedule. I seriously thought I was ready earlier, but I stuck with it regardless.

--Rich

JRutledge · #32 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 03:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
I also know people who have been working 3 years who think they should be working 50 varsity games and the vets are just "old." Few officials are willing to pay ANY dues anymore. It took me a good 6-7 years before I worked a full varsity schedule. I seriously thought I was ready earlier, but I stuck with it regardless.

--Rich

I agree with you on this for the most part. I think a lot of officials use excuses like "old boy network" or "kissing butt" as the reasons they do not achieve and others do achieve. That is the case in your system or my system. I work around assignors that take the word of one coach and do not show tape or but an evaluation that is based on nothing but an opinion. There is a D1 official that moved into our area and the last I heard he cannot get hardly a game or two from assignors that have evidence that he currently works D1 ball. Unfortunately that is how human beings operate.

Peace

imaref · #33 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 05:17pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Part of what I failed to mention was that I had 15 years of experience before moving here. That probably greased the skids a bit with the local commissioners. Regardless, I had to make the contact with them.

I've taken on one of the 7-to-10 year officials and have worked a number of games with him the past few seasons, offering him pointers about moving up and being aggressive. Earlier this season, I talked to him and found out he's gotten a regular partner and a 20-game schedule this season. It's about attitude and mindset. You've hit the nail on the head, wl.

Why should veteran officials who work hard be punished? Since when should youth and inexperience trump veteran knowledge and experience?

I do know officials that have been working less than 10 years that are a lot better than officials that have 15+ years working. Not to say that applies to you, but not all veteran officials are what I would call quality officials. How good someone is can be very subjective.

Peace

It's subjective, so how can you possibly know who's "better"?

Sorry. I know what you mean.

I also know people who have been working 3 years who think they should be working 50 varsity games and the vets are just "old." Few officials are willing to pay ANY dues anymore. It took me a good 6-7 years before I worked a full varsity schedule. I seriously thought I was ready earlier, but I stuck with it regardless.

--Rich

It is subjective....just as you say Rich. They say it's objective....but, just look at the tourney assignments. I know this year we were told to show commitment and initiative. We've jumped through all the hoops....I saw you doing the same things. ie: getting certified for NFHS "3-Person" Mechanics....going to camps and clinics....all to meet the criteria of being considered for post season assignments. Hey....look who got the most assignments. The philosophy is changing and it appears earning your stripes means absolutely nothing anymore. Me thinks....like the NCAA....there's a "look" that is more important to the "Powers that Be" than the veteran service record. Because the state association isn't responsible for the training and recruiting of new officials....they have left that up to us and forget to show their appreciation in the long run!

Ahh....I've said too much....I better shut up....I'm done!

You've got my respect, Rich! Take it easy.

tomegun · #34 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 05:42pm

imaref, you guys have my respect for dealing with that system, but I don't think the ncaa has a 'look.' Have you seen games on TV lately? The officials are good, I know some of them personally, but there are plenty of officials on TV that do not fit any look. Actually, the JC conference I'm in is the toughest nut to crack, and I'm sick of it because it has nothing to do with officiating!

imaref · #35 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 06:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
Actually, the JC conference I'm in is the toughest nut to crack, and I'm sick of it because it has nothing to do with officiating!

I understand your opinion regarding NCAA and that's OK.....

I am, however,with you 100% on the JC situation. You are absolutely correct on the "politics" involved here!

"Ahhh....the patient whistle!"

zebracz · #36 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 10:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by imaref
Rich....

Thanks for saying what has to be said!

My partners and I were discussing the Hernandez story the other night on our way to our game. We're what the article referred to as "older" officials. We like to be classified as "veteran" or "seasoned" officials. Our "3-Crew", between us have 94 years of service at all levels from pee-wee to college. We work very hard to maintain our fitness level because we know and understand that the game, indeed has gotten faster. None-the-less, we feel very comfortable that we can compete with the best of the crews & teams out there. We are also of the opinion that we will gladly leave the avocation the moment we feel unable to do the job for the players.....isn't that the primary reason for our work?

I'm sure you agree with me, Rich, that "we" are in a generation of people who want the spotlight before earning it with hardwork, commitment and "learning the craft" at the lower levels and eventually moving up. I am also proud to say that I have served as a mentor for several talented young people who have gone on to earn the right to work the State Tournament. That's my thanks.....because I did something that made a difference!

The Hernandez story was so limited on facts and made some really erroneous assumptions and generalities. I know you have worked hard and paid your dues in getting the schedule you have! And that's to your credit. Us "veteran" officials should not be ignored by the "new" thinking that you can climb the ladder without the work! I agree that new officials need more opportunities....but, you need to make those opportunities by developing a good work ethic and committing yourself to getting noticed! Our crew has always been receptive to mentoring young officials into a rotation with us so they can experience the "Games of Consequence"....but, I'll be hell bent to take on someone in our crew who isn't committed to working hard and putting in the time to earn the opportunities that come with their hardwork!

"end of editorial".....now I'll shut up!

Amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, and amen. Halleluia.

mj · #37 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 11:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by imaref

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Part of what I failed to mention was that I had 15 years of experience before moving here. That probably greased the skids a bit with the local commissioners. Regardless, I had to make the contact with them.

I've taken on one of the 7-to-10 year officials and have worked a number of games with him the past few seasons, offering him pointers about moving up and being aggressive. Earlier this season, I talked to him and found out he's gotten a regular partner and a 20-game schedule this season. It's about attitude and mindset. You've hit the nail on the head, wl.

Why should veteran officials who work hard be punished? Since when should youth and inexperience trump veteran knowledge and experience?

I do know officials that have been working less than 10 years that are a lot better than officials that have 15+ years working. Not to say that applies to you, but not all veteran officials are what I would call quality officials. How good someone is can be very subjective.

Peace

It's subjective, so how can you possibly know who's "better"?

Sorry. I know what you mean.

I also know people who have been working 3 years who think they should be working 50 varsity games and the vets are just "old." Few officials are willing to pay ANY dues anymore. It took me a good 6-7 years before I worked a full varsity schedule. I seriously thought I was ready earlier, but I stuck with it regardless.

--Rich

It is subjective....just as you say Rich. They say it's objective....but, just look at the tourney assignments. I know this year we were told to show commitment and initiative. We've jumped through all the hoops....I saw you doing the same things. ie: getting certified for NFHS "3-Person" Mechanics....going to camps and clinics....all to meet the criteria of being considered for post season assignments. Hey....look who got the most assignments. The philosophy is changing and it appears earning your stripes means absolutely nothing anymore. Me thinks....like the NCAA....there's a "look" that is more important to the "Powers that Be" than the veteran service record. Because the state association isn't responsible for the training and recruiting of new officials....they have left that up to us and forget to show their appreciation in the long run!

Ahh....I've said too much....I better shut up....I'm done!

You've got my respect, Rich! Take it easy.

Now I really better bite my tongue...

Rich · #38 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 02, 2006, 11:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mj

Quote:

Originally posted by imaref

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge

Quote:

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Part of what I failed to mention was that I had 15 years of experience before moving here. That probably greased the skids a bit with the local commissioners. Regardless, I had to make the contact with them.

I've taken on one of the 7-to-10 year officials and have worked a number of games with him the past few seasons, offering him pointers about moving up and being aggressive. Earlier this season, I talked to him and found out he's gotten a regular partner and a 20-game schedule this season. It's about attitude and mindset. You've hit the nail on the head, wl.

Why should veteran officials who work hard be punished? Since when should youth and inexperience trump veteran knowledge and experience?

I do know officials that have been working less than 10 years that are a lot better than officials that have 15+ years working. Not to say that applies to you, but not all veteran officials are what I would call quality officials. How good someone is can be very subjective.

Peace

It's subjective, so how can you possibly know who's "better"?

Sorry. I know what you mean.

I also know people who have been working 3 years who think they should be working 50 varsity games and the vets are just "old." Few officials are willing to pay ANY dues anymore. It took me a good 6-7 years before I worked a full varsity schedule. I seriously thought I was ready earlier, but I stuck with it regardless.

--Rich

It is subjective....just as you say Rich. They say it's objective....but, just look at the tourney assignments. I know this year we were told to show commitment and initiative. We've jumped through all the hoops....I saw you doing the same things. ie: getting certified for NFHS "3-Person" Mechanics....going to camps and clinics....all to meet the criteria of being considered for post season assignments. Hey....look who got the most assignments. The philosophy is changing and it appears earning your stripes means absolutely nothing anymore. Me thinks....like the NCAA....there's a "look" that is more important to the "Powers that Be" than the veteran service record. Because the state association isn't responsible for the training and recruiting of new officials....they have left that up to us and forget to show their appreciation in the long run!

Ahh....I've said too much....I better shut up....I'm done!

You've got my respect, Rich! Take it easy.

Now I really better bite my tongue...

wl, I know what you mean. I went to camps and worked 12-15 3-person games and worked hard at all my assignments and my playoff assignment total went DOWN this season from last season when I was an L5 (Master this season). I'd like to know why, but you just can't ask. And frankly, I've put too much importance already on things I can't control by caring about this as much as I did at the time. I'm over it.

I don't begrudge those who have worked hard to get their state assignments, Mark, and I know you have put in your dues. All the WI officials that posted here have earned all the respect they get and in many cases more. Coming to Madison again this season, Mark? I may be in town this time.

Furthermore, I've decided to stop evaluating my worth by counting up the playoff assignments and big games in big conferences. I truly have little control over that.

BTW, I had a GREAT game tonight -- Dodgeville/Platteville boys, tied at the end of 3 quarters after Platteville outscored Dodgeville 15-2 in the third. Dodgeville pulled away late, but it was a fun game to work. Great flow, no big game interruptors from us (fouls were 2-2 with 4 minutes left in the fourth quarter after we called a total of 8 in the first half) and the players and coaches were great. I'd rather judge my season on how I felt after working games like that.

--Rich

[Edited by Rich Fronheiser on Feb 2nd, 2006 at 11:55 PM]