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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 08:42pm
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Worked a middle school girls' game yesterday. Late in the game, the coach from one of the teams calls for a sub for one of her players who had just recently collected her 4th foul. Her team also will have possession from backcourt. The new player has come in, my partner has administered the ball, and that team is bringing the ball up backcourt to frontcourt. What I notice then is that the player that was coming out on the sub [the player with that 4th foul and she was still upset on the call] was taking her time leaving the court and was still walking slowly [with attitude] off the court near her bench. The coach wasn't saying anything to her either to hurry her off the court. The ball was in play and in essence there were six players on the court for that team. I wasn't sure what the exact violation was, in fact, I wasn't sure there was a violation, but I blew my whistle, stopped the game, and gave the ball over to the other team due to the other team having 6 players on the court. My partner and I should have been more attentive in making sure the player leaving the court was actually out of the game, but we just didn't catch it.

What should have been the correct thing to do, and what, if any, violation might have occurred?

G
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 08:46pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by GregAlan
Worked a middle school girls' game yesterday. Late in the game, the coach from one of the teams calls for a sub for one of her players who had just recently collected her 4th foul. Her team also will have possession from backcourt. The new player has come in, my partner has administered the ball, and that team is bringing the ball up backcourt to frontcourt. What I notice then is that the player that was coming out on the sub [the player with that 4th foul and she was still upset on the call] was taking her time leaving the court and was still walking slowly [with attitude] off the court near her bench. The coach wasn't saying anything to her either to hurry her off the court. The ball was in play and in essence there were six players on the court for that team. I wasn't sure what the exact violation was, in fact, I wasn't sure there was a violation, but I blew my whistle, stopped the game, and gave the ball over to the other team due to the other team having 6 players on the court. My partner and I should have been more attentive in making sure the player leaving the court was actually out of the game, but we just didn't catch it.

What should have been the correct thing to do, and what, if any, violation might have occurred?

G
Well since this was most your guy's fault I'd of let it go as long as she didnt interfear. However I'd have to be their because of the attitude, it coulda resutled in a Tech
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 09:58pm
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Under normal conditions, I have a difficult time giving a T for something we contributed to by putting it in play with the 6th player on the floor.

In this situation, however, I think a T is in order based on the player's behavior.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 11:37pm
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The official penalty is a T. Sounds like she earned that. I don't have a problem with you fudging a little and just giving the turn-over. In a higher level game, I'd either watch to be sure she didn't get any where near any other player and really did get off eventually, or if she were really taking her time and being spiteful, then whack her. The violation isn't really an option in any game that counts for anything.
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Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 12:47am
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GragAlan, why are you letting your partner put the ball in play before the substitution is complete? You should have had a stop sign until the sub was in and the other player was out. If she wasn't getting off the floor very fast, do some preventive officiating and get her off the floor. Address the attitiude if you need to but this wasn't a situation where you should have had 6 players on the court. Sounds like you didn't do a good job of handling the sub and also a lack of communication between you and your partner on when to put the ball in play.
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Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 01:01am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Red_Killian
GragAlan, why are you letting your partner put the ball in play before the substitution is complete? You should have had a stop sign until the sub was in and the other player was out. If she wasn't getting off the floor very fast, do some preventive officiating and get her off the floor. Address the attitiude if you need to but this wasn't a situation where you should have had 6 players on the court. Sounds like you didn't do a good job of handling the sub and also a lack of communication between you and your partner on when to put the ball in play.
Let he who has never dropped a stop sign too soon cast the first stone.
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Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 01:23am
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Hey BZ, part of the original question was what should have been the correct thing to do. I stand by my answer - not let it happen. There was no mention of a stop sign ever being up let alone dropped to early. I guess I did not address how to handle after you realize the mistake. Since this was a middle school game, I'd ignore it if it didn't impact the play. If this was a higher level game I would probably do the same thing. If I caught any flak, "Sorry coach, I must have missed them having 6 on the court."

My intent was not to cast any stones but to explain how to avoid the situation in the first place. Yes, like most of us, I've been there, done that.
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Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 01:24am
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Since the player was displaying a poor attitude by slowly leaving the court and the ball was in fact put in play, I would have no problem at all making the by the book correct call on this play. That call is a TEAM technical foul for having six team members participating. Notice that the T is not charged to this player, so it wouldn't be her fifth.

The team certainly earned this penalty by having a player display poor sportsmanship.

Rule 10 Fouls and Penalties
SECTION 1 TEAM TECHNICAL
A team shall not:
...
ART. 6 . . . Have more than five team members participating simultaneously.

PENALTY: (Art. 6) Penalized if discovered while being violated.
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Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 01:48am
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we've all been there

we've all been there and normally wont happen again...piece of advice i've been given is the three point check by the OOB offical...check table for subs, check partner for start, and then administer the ball...helps keep me out of trouble...thanks nevadaref always appreciate your rules knowledge and you taking the time to list them.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 09:27am
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Quote:
Originally posted by GregAlan
What should have been the correct thing to do, and what, if any, violation might have occurred?

G
No violation occurred.

Your options are to assess a T, or to determine that the ball never really became live and readminister the throw-in.

Just giving the ball to the other team is not an option.

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