I think this must be an officially declared event and it was this week. Several of you have described horrible game this week, and I had a real lulu tonight. 1A girls' varsity. These schools don't even have JV teams -- too small. Visitor's book person was incredibly partisan and got pretty vocal by the end. Visitor coach tossed in the third quarter. Wouldn't leave. No assistant to sit on the bench. Had to have a major conference about who was allowed to take over. Over 50 fouls. Worst of all, the visitors came really close to catching up by the end, and we almost had OT. 4 more minutes of that stuff, and I'd have applied for combat pay.

Hmmmm, coach tossed, no assistant - unless they had their AD or another school employee to take over it sounds like a forfeit to me Juulie.....

I had a 4A F/JV girls double header tonight - DDHS @ Central Catholic. First game was about what you'd expect, but the JV was actually pretty good. Now if I can only make it through the 3 G8 tournament games I have at Sunset this weekend....

I certainly agree that the stars have been crossed this week.


As for this, I would never put up with this. You don't need this person for anything, so just remove him and tell him not to let the door hit him on the way out.

The scorer and timer are part of your crew for that night and should support you and you them.

Tonight was a good example. I actually observed a father yelling at the scorer and timer during the jv game. I was sitting quietly off to the side in street clothes since I arrived early. It was obvious that he was really bothering them. One time the scorer even turned around and yelled at the guy when he complained that the 1-1 wasn't being awarded after a PC foul. When I took the floor for the varsity contest, I had to check the book and I let the table crew know, in not so quiet a voice so that this guy could hear me, that if anyone in the stands gave them a hard time during the game all they had to do was say the word and I would be happy to remove that person.

You should have seen their faces. They just loved our crew after that. Talk about scoring points, if there had been a place on the scoreboard for officials between the home and visitor score, I think that we would have won the contest.

The varsity game must have been pretty unpleasant, though. blow-out times ten!

I would have forfeited the game if the boys' V coach hadn't sat in and taken over. The huge conference was over who could legally do the job. My partner was trying to insist that whoever filled in had to be approved, hired, or whatever, I didn't pay a lot of attention. Finally I got the boys' coach aside and said, look, we don't have anything to say about this. Legally, it's your problem not ours. Whoever you choose is fine with us. I think in the end it was a teacher from the school who is the JH coach. He did a pretty good job, and the team came back from an 18 point deficit to only lose by 4.

Just for the record, the visitors were Heritage Christian. I knew you'd be asking about that....

I swear, I had the thought on Wed. that our Y League has been so sportsmanlike this year (5 weeks in) that we were due for a "nutty". We go to great efforts to have parity. We do Player Evaluations - Ratings - A Formal Draft. Some years it works better than others. This year it didn't work too well. If you ever run a Youth League, my advice is the only Car Pool considerations to grant are for siblings. Brothers & Sisters and that's it.

Reffing a 5-6 Grade Blow-out, yesterday by myself. Coach of team that was ahead calls T/O in first half. I turn and grant it. Only problem...the other Team has the ball! When I see that I messed up, I explain, "Sorry Coach. Can't have it until you have the ball or it's dead." I put the ball back in play. No big deal.

Second half blowout. Final 40-15. Quiet game - both Coaches gentleman. I leave court and go to the water bubbler. I come back for next game and both Coaches are in eachothers' faces, pushing & shoving. Very, very hot. I grab the Winning Coach who I had to physically restrain from going after the Losing Coach?!! Apparently, the Losing Coach said something about the TO Play??!!! (Blow-outs create a lot of resentments.)

The Winning Coach is strugging to throw a punch...dropping the F-Bomb in front of the grandmothers?!!!He's no kid, either, he's in his 40's. Seemed like a nice guy all year? (This is the all time Yuppie town, too, these parents are like Drs., Lawyers, Accountants,...)

It's bizzare to me. How can two adults risk the results of hand-to-hand combat over a 5-6 Basketball Game? It's just crazy. In Mass, we had a death between two adults over Youth Hockey a few years back. I seriously don't get it....and probbaly never will.

I Coach my 9-12 Grade Team on Sunday. I'm sure the issue of what we do to the two Coaches will come up as we have a Volunteer Advisory Board that I'm on. I'm not a very "by-the-book" person and these are "good" parents....actively involved with their kids....but what do you do? If two guys are whacky enough to duke it out over a biddy game, it's not responsible to keep them around, right?

I'm down.....blah.....

Juulie:
 

In Oregon there must be an ASEP certified person on the bench of any OSAA sponsored game.

JCrow, you gotta teach them a lesson and send a message to the rest of the coaches/ parents that this behavior will not be accepted.

Chris,

I agree with you. I told one of the guys on our Advisory Comittee that I recommend that both Coaches not be allowed to coach unless they got together and apologized to their kids about the terrible example they set.

Too many kids carry guns and knifes today to encourage 5-6 graders to resolve grudges physically.

My 9-12 Team got beat by 8 today. They had great heart and bounced back after a bad blow-out last week. I was proud of them.

In the Game prior to ours, a Coach took off his glasses and asked the Ref (IABBO) if he wanted to borrow them? No Tech. I'd whack any Coach for that. Never seen a Coach do that one and I wear glasses! At least it was creative.

Re: Juulie:
 

Since when do the officials care? If the replacement coach isn't certified, the state office will take care of it. The name of the replacement would go into the report. Would you ask for a membership card?

Just a question I have in all of this. Is the person who keeps the visitors' scorebook bench personnel since that person is not the official scorer?

2-1-2 specifies an official scorer.

2-22-11 makes mention of 'the visiting scorer', recommending that the official scorer compare records with the visiting scorer's records after each goal, foul, charged timeout, and end of quarter and extra period.

4-34-2 says that " . . . Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team, including, but not limited to: coaches, manager(s), and statistician(s).

4.34.2 (Casebook) makes it clear that it's a T on the bench if the ahtletic trainer, seated on the bench, throws a towel on the floor in reaction to a call by an official.

In the light of the foregoing, subject to more light, of course, here's how I treat it. If the visiting scorer is seated at the table, and, optimally, next to the official scorer per mandate in the rules (somewhere), I treat the person as my responsibily, if I am the Ref. If the person 'misbehaves' (refuses to stop cheering for his/her team from the table), I will banish the person to their bench. From there, if they misbehave, I will asses a bench T.

Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, though it is more likely to be an AAU issue.

Re: Juulie:
 

Yea, I know, my partner made that very clear. But as refs, it's not our concern is it? I mean, if there's an adult sitting there, we don't need to ask to see his credentials? I'm sure I've been told that it's not an issue for us.

Re: Juulie:
 

So Tim, were you the OAOA person at the PBOA meeting Wed eve Jan 18?

I'd say that it is your concern. If your association makes this requirement clear to all of the member officials and then a situation arises for it to be adhered to you better darn well apply it. The real problem is that if you choose to continue a contest without at least asking whether the person taking over the team is certified, then you could face serious after the fact issues, if something bad happens. The question is going to be why did you permit this contest to continue?

Re: Juulie:
 

Tim,

Along these lines, I assume then that OSAA requires mandatory ASEP certification for all coaches, including assistants. Unfortunately officials rarely get this kind of information except by osmosis.

When ejecting a head coach, I first politely ask them if they have a qualified assistant on the bench and who it is. This accomplishes two things: First - it tells me who the new acting coach will be; Second - asking them a question makes the coach change their line of thought, putting them a little off balance if you will, and the momentary confusion can really help defuse a potentially volatile situation. It's a sneaky little trick I learned in LEO training almost three decades ago and it still works.....

On the rare occasion they'd say "no" (and I've never seen this happen), we can then either quickly try to find one handy from their school or go the forfeit route.

In Juulie's case, since the boy's V coach took over, I assume all was OK......



[Edited by TimTaylor on Jan 30th, 2006 at 02:21 AM]

And,
 

Tim:

I was simply trying to comment on Juulie's statement about the confusion of who was taking over.

I am sure you are aware that by 2010 ALL OFFICIALS that work Oregon State Activities Association sponsored athletic events will be required to be ASEP certified.

The requirement, which starts a three year phase-in starting in 2007, is tied to any game fee increases being granted by the inter-league council.

First year officials in all sports will be the first to be required to pass both a methods class and a princples class. New officials will be hit with yet another "start-up" cost as the testing is $75.

The OAOA is attempting to find ways to assist in payment for new officials. All varsity officials in all sports will be "grandfathered" past the methods class but will be required to pass the principles section.

But, Nevada, our association HASN"T made this requirement clear to all officials. In fact, we're told not to worry about OSAA requirements that aren't specifically listed for us, and this isn't one of them. We don't worry about quarters that a player is "in", we don't worry about whether a player or a coach has been suspended for one game, unless we are told otherwise. And we've certainly never been told about coaches needing ASEP certification. So I'd say it's not our concern.

[Edited by rainmaker on Jan 30th, 2006 at 11:58 AM]

And Tim C still hasn't answered my question about whether he was at the PBOA meeting a couple of weeks ago.

Re: And,
 

This, as was explained at our recent meeting, is not quite accurate. All officials (not just all varsity officials) will be grandfathered past the methods class. The state rep made that point crystal clear. He said "Everyone" in this room will be grandfathered in.

Regarding the principles class, it is only required if you wish to be eligible for tournament games. If you don't take it, can still work any regular season game.

Re: Re: And,
 

So are you saying that Tim was or wasn't the OAOA rep that was at our meeting?

Re: Re: Re: And,
 

I have no idea who that was speaking. I didn't catch his name. If that was Tim, then what he said at the meeting is different than what he is saying here.

Re: Re: Re: Re: And,
 

Nope - it was a different person at the meeting - PFOA member. I suppose we could look it up in the minutes.....

He didn't answer my question either - I asked about ASEP requirements for coaches & got an answer about officials, which as you pointed out differs from what we were told at the meeting. Guess we could always ask Jack......