Hello all,
I would like to get some feedback from you guys.
I was working a JV boys game and there where a couple of big kids on both teams. After the game a long time Varsity official was talking to me about officiating and he noticed me coming ball side on plays in the post. He told me he never comes ball side, and that there was no reason to. For two reasons,
1: "what more do I need to see by coming ball-side that I can’t see from where I was". 2: "if I trust my partner I will never need to come over". Now this goes against every thing I learned about officiating the post. So I wanted to know how you guys officiate post play. Do you come ball-side?? Thanks

In two person, we are encouraged to come ball side, especially in the low post. The reasons are: 1. If you stay across the paint, usually all you'll see are the defender's elbows and butt. You are guessing at what is really happening. If you rotate over, you have a better chance of seeing through the play. 2) A call from 4 feet away is easier to sell than a call from 20 feet away (and that assumes the trail has hustled down to pick up this play, and is not calling it from the division line).

For me it depends what is happening away from the ball. If there are players across the key setting up for a play I will drop off the end line a bit to get a better angle on all players. If everyone is ball side, I will move in the middle more to see the gap and/or get a good angle on the posts.

JMO I may be wrong, but I doubt it. - Charles Barkley

This is the approach I have been using. What this official was telling me was new to me. It was the first time I had heard that philosophy.

I'm not sure what year you are in reffing, but I'm in my second and I have a Mentor this year. Who has helped me a great deal with my game. One thing he encouraged me to do was come ball side when ever the situation arose. I also have talked to more than a few Varsity refs and they also have told me the same thing. So thank this guy for his imput and stow it away in the useless info you do not need.

The WNBA did a study and when lead made a call across the paint they got it wrong 70% of the time, so take that for what it is worth.

The to go or not to go is a hot issue in two person and for me, if the ball and the majority of players are on that side I'm going. If the team uses their post player I'm staying with that match up, so that means if the post goes to the ball, I go across with them.

Your veteran was an old grump who simply doesn't want to change the way he's been doing things. To ask, "what will you see from there that you can't see from here" is, frankly, a stupid question. If there's nothing happening in the near post and there is -- or soon will be -- action in the far post, then go ref the action.

In 2 man I will close down to the lane, but never go ball side. If you get a quick skip pass, who is going be out to see if it's a 3? I don't agree with going ball side in 2 man. My best advice would be scrap 2 man completely and go to 3.

My guess would be that you miss a lot of post stuff...the day I can't get my butt back across the key in time to cover a shot after a skip pass is the day I hang it up...in two person, you have got to come across, especially when the T has the ball in the corner and 5 other players over on that side of the court. No way can he/she cover that ball deep, the post action low, and the screen being set at the high post corner - get over there and help, and then get back when you need to.

This is me 5th season. Unfortunately we do not have a mentoring program here, but we should. I will come ball-side when the play dictates I need to. I think most of what this official had to say was good stuff, but when he got on this topic I did not agree with it. I was curious how many other officials work the post his way.

I'm going to disagree with you Rocky as would the people that taught me. I think that if you are getting on the other side of the lane, you are out of your primary and potentially out of position. The play I envisioned was, you come across to get post players on ball side, ball gets passed over the top beyond the arc for a 3. Not that you are out of shape, but there's no way can you get from the ball side of the lane to the arc as fast as a pass. Also, if you close to the lane, what post play can't you see. You can get deep and see the whole lane, you'll see players wrapping arms around each other and you can see displacement. I just don't see the great advantage of going ball side. I'm open to suggestions to convince me otherwise of course.

I'll try. Think in terms of angles, and picture this play: ball goes to T's side, just in front of him/her. Post players go to that side of the lane, with the defender behind the offense (or fronting; either way). Freeze the action, and now you've got almost a straight line from you at L, through the defender, offensive post player, ball handler and defender, and T. If the L goes ball side, they wouldn't have to guess if the defnder is pushing out the post, or if the post is backing down the defender, etc. because they've now got the angle to see between them. Chances are the T isn't going to see it right away because they're watching the ball handler and defender. That play will happen more often than the skip pass going OOB on that far sideline.

Yep, 2-person has it's limitations, especially when compared to 3, but it's learning how to work within those limits to make the best possible calls. You will not come across as often as in 3, but there will be times when it's necessary so you don't have to guess.

I would bet - since I obviously have something against ball-watching - that when the officials go across the paint in this situation there are four eyes on the ball in the post. Sometimes I go, sometimes I don't so it doesn't really matter to me. But, I think coverage suffers unless the crew of two is solid!
A strong, active, trail official will get into a similar position as a C would and be able to see the play. This would only leave the front (basket) side for the L to get from across the paint. It is done all the time in 3-person. Like I said, sometimes I go and sometimes I don't.

I see what you all are saying, but to me, I can see enough from the opposite side of the land if there is enough displacement to call a foul. I would feel out of position if I were ball side. I do go if there's a CF and the ball is loose on the floor, but that's about the only time. In a normal, half-court offense I just don't think it gains as much as it could hurt.

I am also not a big proponent of going ball side. I will do it but I do not see a lot of situations where it is necessary. I am so glad I do not have to work it that much that this is not a major issue. I think this is an acquired taste whether you use this mechanic and how much. Usually players are not in the post very long anyway and I do not see how going ball side is going to make a call that much better. When the ball gets kicked out of the post which happens a lot, then you are out of position to make other calls that are more likely to happen. I think you should use the mechanic but it should be rare. It is not something that is taught around here as a “must use” mechanic.

Peace

In 2-person, you don't go across to referee the ball in the post, you go across to referee the post while T is busy with other things...if the ball is in the post, that's T's primary, but if - like I said earlier - T has the ball in the deep corner and a bunch of other players over there, there's no way T can cover all of that...and even in close-down, I'm still looking at nothing but the defenders arse - not much of an angle there.

In 2-person you DO go across to referee the play in the post. If the ball comes below the free throw line extended, and I rotate over, and square up, I'm telling the Trail "I have the play. Go off-ball."

I know people that would disagree with your opinion on why you should not cross or cross. That is the problem I have for the mechanic because there are a lot of different reasons why people feel you should go ball side. Not everyone is big on this mechanic and I personally do not care either way. I think it is a personal decision with your crew and the officials that decides to use it. I do not see a reason to rotate just because people are on one side of the court. The issue for me would be why they are on the other side of the court. I know in 3 Person where rotation is required for the system to work, you still do not rotate just because more people are on one side of the court (unless you work NCAA Women’s and NBA mechanics). You rotate when it is clear the ball is going to stay in that area or a team is right-handed or left handed and there is no doubt post play on that side is going to be essential to this offense. I do not think that makes this veteran a bad officials or stubborn. I think it makes this officials not buying into this philosophy.

Peace

Check the Fed Mechanics Manual
 

The mechanic is in the NFHS Official's Manual.

There is no rotation. The lead coming across the key is not to force the Trail to switch sides.

When the ball, on the Trail side of the key, drops below the free throw line extended, the Lead can jump to the far side of the key and watch the impending post play/jockeying. When the jockeying stops or the ball goes back above the free-throw line, the Lead goes back to the other side of the key.

When the lead jumps across, they should take a position near the lane line, maybe a step more, looking back through the key, between the jockeying players - not towards the ball.

If the ball is passed into the post, now the Lead is in great position and it is his primary call.

IT is not like 3-man. No rotation; Trail stays where he is at.

It is a great mechanic. And should be used. The lazy veteran mentioned in the original post should retire. At a minimum he should quit perpetuating obsolete, poor mechanics to younger officials.
;)

I would agree with your first sentence (since that's pretty much exactly what I said)...as for the rest of your post, I'm not so sure I agree...so you are saying that you go across as L, and then pick the ball up out in the deep corner (say, outside the 3 pt. line)??

Now that, I think, could cause some coverage problems...

Tony,

I think you are misunderstanding what I mean by "rotation." All this term means is movement during live a ball. I did not suggest that the Trail does anything. The Lead is doing a rotation when they move to the same side as the Trail. Whether you use the term "coming across, rotation" or "ball side mechanic, either way not everyone agrees with the practice and when to do it. The NF as usual gives very little information to describe when you use the mechanic and when you do not use a "rotation" from the Lead position. The NF does say that each state can come up with guidelines when to use the mechanic (page 22, #204 near the bottom) and that this mechanic should be used sparingly.

Peace

That was my thinking as well - you do not change areas of coverage, just what direction your looking at it. The L still has the paint, and the area below the FT extended opposit the T. But when the L comes over, they are just looking at the paint from a different angle. The T could still have something outside the paint, directly in front of the L, because that is still T's area.

It's not something I do often, but it has helped to get that better angle. Just remember to pre-game areas of coverage, so the T doesn't go to sleep in their area just because the L is close by.

[Edited by M&M Guy on Jan 26th, 2006 at 03:16 PM]

Agreed - we see it the same way. Now, I would ask if you were a Yankees fan, but that would be getting off-topic and we can't do that so never mind.

You're right, we don't want to (coughMeaYankeefan?Barf!cough) get off topic. We need to stick (coughGoCubbies!cough) to basketball-related items.

Thank you for your cooperation.

So just to summarize here - we both agree that (coughtheYankeessuckcough)you come across the key to (coughgoSeahawkscough)ref the post play, not (coughJR'sagrumpyoldpoopcough)necessarily the ball(coughChuckandIarebothshortcough).

And before Dan can tell us, we'll both shut-up now.

:D