FIBA

[Oz Referee]

Hi all, as you may know I'm from Australia and we basically use FIBA rules for everything (our pro league, the NBL, uses a combination of NBA/FIBA rules).

Do you believe that it is more difficult for an American referee to progress to International (ie FIBA) competitions than a referee that has learnt FIBA rules & mechanics from the ground up?

Also, which is you dream goal as far as refereeing (or playing or coaching)-
The gold medal game of the Olympics? or
The NBA Finals Series?

I look forward to responses.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Oz Referee
Hi all, as you may know I'm from Australia and we basically use FIBA rules for everything (our pro league, the NBL, uses a combination of NBA/FIBA rules).

Do you believe that it is more difficult for an American referee to progress to International (ie FIBA) competitions than a referee that has learnt FIBA rules & mechanics from the ground up?

Do not know enough about FIBA and personally do not care. Never looked into it.

Also, which is you dream goal as far as refereeing (or playing or coaching)-
The gold medal game of the Olympics? or
The NBA Finals Series? [/B][/QUOTE]

I cannot speak for everyone, but for me, neither. I have no dreams at all to do the Olympics. To me that is not basketball and the talent of many American college players are better than many of the Intenational players.

I would also have no desire to do the NBA either. I just do not like the game that much. Do not get me wrong I follow the NBA, but as compared to the college game, I would rather do the college game. I would much rather do Michigan-Indiana or North Carolina-Duke any day over Philidelphia-Los Angeles. Because a college game will at least be about the schools and the tradition of the matchup, not be determined by what free agent signed that year and who may or may not be hurt.

When I first started officiating the NBA was the goal. Soon after I started what bigger game in sports is Duke-North Carolina? The coaches can change, the players can change and this is still a big game.

My goal is to do a Men's Final Four before I die. What is bigger than having one shot to win it all? A team has a bad outing, no matter how good they are, they lose the National Championship. In the NBA you have 3 times to lose in the Finals. And unless it is a Game 7, the stakes are not equal.

[Oz Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I cannot speak for everyone, but for me, neither. I have no dreams at all to do the Olympics. To me that is not basketball and the talent of many American college players are better than many of the Intenational players.

Obviously everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I have to disagree.

Yes, the USA is by far the strongest basketball nation in the world at present. However, this is steadily changing, and other nations are catching up. To me, representing ones country is the greatest honour of all, and the Olympics is the pinnacle of sport.

I perfectly agree about your comments in regard to the NCAA vs NBA, maybe it is the memories of youth, but their seems to be no (or little) passion or loyalty in professional sports today, compared with 10 or 20 years ago.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by Oz Referee
Do you believe that it is more difficult for an American referee to progress to International (ie FIBA) competitions than a referee that has learnt FIBA rules & mechanics from the ground up?

I am not a ref, but this question seems fairly easy to me. It should make little difference to a ref that they did not start with FIBA rules and mechanics. In general, it is the same game. In the details, it is very different. But these differences exist between HS and college ball, and even more dramatically between college and pro in terms of mechanics, rules, and how you interpret the rules. Nobody starts out in the US reffing at the NBA level or under NBA rules. The best refs end up reaching the NBA and learn that method. Yes, there is an adjustment time, and you an see the difference between an experienced NBA ref and a rookie.

I am sure that any competent high level US ref could switch over to FIBA if they chose to and be as good as anyone at the international level. Top D1 college ball in the US is close to or above the level of most international league games. I don't want to sound parochial, because I do recognize the great strides that many countries have made in basketball. It is night and day from 20-30 years ago. But regardless of what you say about the world catching up, every pro league I know of outside of the US picks up NBA and CBA castoffs and puts them in the starting lineup every night. And many of the top intenational stars come to the NBA to play the best competition, to further develop their high level skills, and to make a little cash! That alone should tell you that no matter how close it looks, it isn't there yet in the rest of the world. And refs that can handle high level ball here can do it anywhere.

[BktBallRef]

Oz, you'll find that most officials here have no desire to work in the NBA or FIBA. There's plenty of quality basketball for all at the high school and collegiate level. There is also far too much politics involved in moving in the world of officiating.

[JRutledge]

I do not know a single official that dreams of doing any international ball. The only time I even hear FIBA talked about is on this board and when the Olympics are going on. Other than that, it does not matter how close the competition is, I and many others that I know have absolutely no desire to be an international ref. Now I understand why you would think that way, but growing up in America, we tend to think about this country first. That might seem arrogant to an extent, but to be at the top levels in Football, Baseball and Basketball, we think of our pro leagues and college leagues as the top.

I am sure that there are people in this country that have those dreams about international ball, but it is not even a discussion at our association meetings, and I have yet to meet someone that did that at all personally. And especially in a sport like basketball that we have dominated for so long, no one cares about FIBA until every four years.

Just a fact

Peace

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Here in the United States it is difficult for an official to get FIBA certificate. About 8 or 9 years ago FIBA tried to institute an age limit on its officials and many of the industrial countries of the world (USA, Canada, Great Britain, and Austrialia) said that that they could not legally discriminate because of age. At the time USA Basketball instituted a two level program for officials. The lower level is: USA Basketball Referee. The upper level is: FIBA Basketball Referee. I am registered as a USA Basketball Referee and doubt if I will ever get the chance to get the FIBA registration. In the U.S. the only USA Basketball Referees that have the chance of getting the FIBA registration are NBA, WNBA, and female NCAA Div. I officials. USA Basketball Referees and FIBA Referees are the only officials that are quailified to officiate the games played at the beginning of the college season here in the U.S. but they are hardly ever used because USA Basketball does not mandate the colleges and universities to use them. If a college does not use USA Basketball or FIBA Referees for a game against a foreign team they are fined $75 per official for the game. There are not too many officials registered as USA Referees or FIBA Referees because the only games played using FIBA rules in the U.S. are the AAU Men's Basketball program. I hope that I have not put everybody asleep, but that is how it is in the U.S.

But please don't get down on FIBA rules. If you were to pick up the FIBA Rule, Case, and Mechanics Books, you would be suprised how close the rules are to NFHS/NCAA rules, and for that matter if you were to compare NBA/WNBA rules to NFHS/NCAA rules there are many rules that are the same word for word. It is just how the rules are enforced on the court. Remember, in the NBA/WNBA, officials are paid not for blowing the whistle but for not necessarily blowing the whistle.

I have two friends that officiate in the WNBA and know one official in the NBA and believe you me, they truly are some of the best basketball officials in the world.

[JRutledge]

Do not miss the point. Know one is saying that people that officiate FIBA are bad officials. But people do not dream about a level that they only see every 4 years for the most part. Just like international baseball. Now too many people that do baseball are knocking each other over to do Olympic Baseball or any other international baseball. I am sure there are people that have the dream to do that, but in this country we mainly see NCAA and Pro levels. That is what you can see every single year on network television, that should not suprise you.