Running Through a Legal Screen

[SmokeEater]

Question is What call should be made when defence B2 turns and sees a legal screen by A3 and then tries to run through the screen? A3 is knocked to the floor by the defender.

Is this a Defensive Charge or Push or what?

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by SmokeEater
Question is What call should be made when defence B2 turns and sees a legal screen by A3 and then tries to run through the screen? A3 is knocked to the floor by the defender.

Is this a Defensive Charge or Push or what?

I would just call a push on the B2.

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by IREFU2

I would just call a push on the B2.

The way you describe it, if you're serious, it could easily be intentional personal foul. By knocking A3 to the floor, B2 has neutralized A3's obviously advantageous position.

[Edited by assignmentmaker on Jan 24th, 2006 at 12:00 PM]

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

The way you describe it, if you're serious, it could easily be intentional personal foul. By knocking A3 to the floor, B2 has neutralized A3's obvious advantageous position.

Yes that is true, unless it was just an unavoidable collision. Need more information.

[ChuckElias]

Yes, technically, it's charging. Report it as a push.

[SmokeEater]

Well it would have to be a judgement call. The defender definately seen the screen but did nothing to avoid the contact. Timing was very quick. Its actually happened 2 times now in games. First time my partner was following the play and for some reason called it a defensive charge tehn awarded the ball back to team A. (Fans and coach heard charge and went nuts when we put the ball in play) When it happened last night I just called it a push. I would have intentional or even flagrant if the guy had lowered his shoulder to run over the screener.

[deecee]

i had a player see the screen and completly unoladed through as if in a football game --

*tweet* flagrant technical and ejection

coach was livid -- i told coach why and then said if he continued to disagree with that call that he would soon be joining his player and one more word would cost him. well next word out of coaches mouth was "that.." *tweet* T'd up the coach.

now im go report and all i say to him -- if i hear one more word about this while im walking away you will be done -- thinking he learned his lesson -- next word out of his mouth "you..." *tweet* thank you coach you are done for the day.

boys 13 or 14yr. old aau ball.

i had a parent come down to coach and made it clear to the parent that he had no rope to burn. funny how one call changes the whole landscape of the game -- 6 ft's and the ball -- i think that cost that team the game down the stretch.

[CaliOne]

Something I have been working on this year is watching illegal screens. I have found when the offense has been using illegal screens all night without a call, the defense gets frustrated towards the end of the game and starts pushing through them. So I've been trying to clean up illegal screens early, in case they do have bearing on whether the defense starts pushing through screens.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by CaliOne
Something I have been working on this year is watching illegal screens. I have found when the offense has been using illegal screens all night without a call, the defense gets frustrated towards the end of the game and starts pushing through them. So I've been trying to clean up illegal screens early, in case they do have bearing on whether the defense starts pushing through screens.

I agree that players may get frustrated, but being frustrated does not justify someone committing an illegal act. There are a lot of legal screens where a player might get frustrated. I am not sure the only reason a players gets frustrated just because something is illegal. Also I do not think is proper just to call a foul when the defense did not earn the call by keeping moving in the same direction. I see a lot of times where a screen is technically illegal, but the screened player stops running and if there is any contact it is slight at best. Advantage/Disadvantage should still apply.

Peace

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by deecee
i had a player see the screen and completly unoladed through as if in a football game --

*tweet* flagrant technical and ejection

coach was livid -- i told coach why and then said if he continued to disagree with that call that he would soon be joining his player and one more word would cost him. well next word out of coaches mouth was "that.." *tweet* T'd up the coach.

now im go report and all i say to him -- if i hear one more word about this while im walking away you will be done -- thinking he learned his lesson -- next word out of his mouth "you..." *tweet* thank you coach you are done for the day.

boys 13 or 14yr. old aau ball.

i had a parent come down to coach and made it clear to the parent that he had no rope to burn. funny how one call changes the whole landscape of the game -- 6 ft's and the ball -- i think that cost that team the game down the stretch.

First of all, welcome to "senior memberhood"

Second of all, please tell me you're kidding. If not...all I can do is shake my head and shed a tear for the team you screwed.

[Daryl H. Long]

Originally posted by deecee
i had a player see the screen and completly unoladed through as if in a football game --

*tweet* flagrant technical and ejection

coach was livid -- i told coach why and then said if he continued to disagree with that call that he would soon be joining his player and one more word would cost him. well next word out of coaches mouth was "that.." *tweet* T'd up the coach.

now im go report and all i say to him -- if i hear one more word about this while im walking away you will be done -- thinking he learned his lesson -- next word out of his mouth "you..." *tweet* thank you coach you are done for the day.

boys 13 or 14yr. old aau ball.

i had a parent come down to coach and made it clear to the parent that he had no rope to burn. funny how one call changes the whole landscape of the game -- 6 ft's and the ball -- i think that cost that team the game down the stretch.

I hope in the 2 years since this happened that you also have learned somehthing from your experience.

1. First foul was a flagrant personal foul; not a T.

2. You "baited" a coach and then gave him 2 T's and ejected him. A cardinal sin in my estimation. Promise me you will NEVER ever do this again for as long as you shall officiate.

Next time, communicate to your partner what happened, report the foul, and get far away from the coach. Let your partner do the brief explanation and notification to the coach of the ejection.

[deecee]

why shed a tear -- the coach had ample warning from me -- i gave him an explanation -- he knew what was coming next -- he continued the discussion after i told him to move on -- then he continued again after i t'd him up the first time --

i am not quick on my trigger and 95% of the time when i T someone up they know its comin because

a) they said or did something that warranted one
or
b) i tell them whats going to happen if they continue on this course.

in my 7 years of officiating (4 HS) -- between HS, and aau ball -- i have probably given out less than 10 T's to coaches and players -- in rec league thats a different story (i might give 10 ts in one night).

I dont see how I screwed his team -- his player essentially decleated the screener and there was only one call for that (flagrant) it was beyond just intentional -- and he knew when his frst T was coming -- and he knew when his second T was coming too -- both comments that got him his technicals was because he kept on the same subject

"that was a ridiculous call"

and

"you are one of the worst officials i have ever seen"

so if i "screwed" this team then he was right with both his comments.

[deecee]

why have my partner explain a call i made -- its my job if a coach has an issue with me to resolve it if possible and i did that -- we let to much go as officials

this year as a coach I have received 1 tech -- i should have received about 4-5 and the one i received was actually a bad one because i asked the official why we were getting called for charges and the other team was getting called block calls.

but the 4-5 i should have gotten were either ignored or were built up from officials not having a repore and open communication with me as a coach.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by deecee
why shed a tear -- the coach had ample warning from me -- i gave him an explanation -- he knew what was coming next -- he continued the discussion after i told him to move on -- then he continued again after i t'd him up the first time --

i am not quick on my trigger and 95% of the time when i T someone up they know its comin because

a) they said or did something that warranted one
or
b) i tell them whats going to happen if they continue on this course.

in my 7 years of officiating (4 HS) -- between HS, and aau ball -- i have probably given out less than 10 T's to coaches and players -- in rec league thats a different story (i might give 10 ts in one night).

I dont see how I screwed his team -- his player essentially decleated the screener and there was only one call for that (flagrant) it was beyond just intentional -- and he knew when his frst T was coming -- and he knew when his second T was coming too -- both comments that got him his technicals was because he kept on the same subject

"that was a ridiculous call"

and

"you are one of the worst officials i have ever seen"

so if i "screwed" this team then he was right with both his comments.

The flagrant, I agree with. Since the ball was live, it's not a technical, but I assume you already knew that (hey, we all mistype sometimes). But the way you handled the coach, that's another matter entirely. You ended up tossing the kid's coach and gave their opponents 4 additional shots. Maybe it would still have happened if you had handled the coach better. But we'll never know.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by deecee
why shed a tear -- the coach had ample warning from me -- i gave him an explanation -- he knew what was coming next -- he continued the discussion after i told him to move on -- then he continued again after i t'd him up the first time --

i am not quick on my trigger and 95% of the time when i T someone up they know its comin because

a) they said or did something that warranted one
or
b) i tell them whats going to happen if they continue on this course.

in my 7 years of officiating (4 HS) -- between HS, and aau ball -- i have probably given out less than 10 T's to coaches and players -- in rec league thats a different story (i might give 10 ts in one night).

I dont see how I screwed his team -- his player essentially decleated the screener and there was only one call for that (flagrant) it was beyond just intentional -- and he knew when his frst T was coming -- and he knew when his second T was coming too -- both comments that got him his technicals was because he kept on the same subject

"that was a ridiculous call"

and

"you are one of the worst officials i have ever seen"

so if i "screwed" this team then he was right with both his comments.

Based on what you wrote, and how you have defended it since, I think I agree with what the coach said.