this happened over this past weekend. I was a bit stunned, but, being a first year ref, maybe this is normal protocol.

Frosh game, sparse attendance. From my right, I hear a fan yell out, "Hey ref, they're over the back. Use your whistle." I just happened to get a chance to look into the stands (ensuing dead ball) and, lo and behold, it was a ref from our association! I found out later his nephew was playing.

Is there any "code" or "rules of conduct" that says you shouldn't verbally hoot on another ref from the stands? And, is it something I should tell my association about, or approach the ref in private, or just let it go?

Being new, you may want to get his "sage advice" on where to find "over the back" in the rule book.

Let it go unless you have to toss him. There is a percieved, unwritten rule, that most officials will not criticize another official publicly. I certainly would never do it. It's not very professional, especially if people around him know he's an official.

The world of officiating is a brotherhood and should be treated as one. No official and I mean no official has any right to publicly ridicule another official at any time.
This needs to be addressed by a senior official of your association.

Can I suggest that, as a new official, you should NOT bring this up as a way of pointing out or targeting any particular offender? Either the fan/ref is already known for this behavior or s/he is connected enough in the association for their to be future awkward moments.

At the end of the season, bring it up in a general way and ask: What are the expectations for officials when they attend games at which they are not working?

MichiganOfficial,
Great signature! I'm a huge Joe D. fan ever since I read "Summer of 49" by David Halberstam (sp?). That's a great quote I wish more athletes would adopt.

I have seen first hand demonstrations of the sort. I understand that even officials can get caught up in the emotion of the game, especially if they are passionate about the game and have some personal interest in the outcome. I don't condone the verbal outbursts if they are meant to embarass another official. Personally I would have appreciated him coming to me after the game or at half time to give CONSTRUCTIVE comments, ( My sit was with a veteran official).

Our association has a written Code of Conduct that specifically forbids doing something like that. If caught, at the minimum the official will be fined. It cuts this kind of unprofessional nonsense out.

Works for us.

Very unprofessional. However, it's extremely shocking he used "over the back." I certainly hope he doesn't call this, although it sounds like he does.

I just started reffing basketball, so I go to a lot of games to watch the veterans. . I am very good about sitting quietly when it is a judgment call, but it is much harder to sit quietly when the refs do not know the rules. I saw a game the other week where the refs called a foul and when the coach complained, one called a techical on the coach. They proceeded to shoot the technical foul shots and then the common foul shots and made the players line up to play off the miss. The coach was trying to tell them that they get the ball after the technical, but the refs would not listen. The refs did not know me, and I chimed in my two cents.

It sounds easy to say "shut up" but when you watch supplosed veterans (and these guys were ancient) make such a basic mistake, it is not so easy.

I went to a small college game last week where one of the officials, on multiple occasions, said "over the back" and "reaching" when she made her calls. She reported the fouls to the table with the proper mechanics (push and illegal use of hands), but at the spot she was using the fan's language of choice.... Too bad. She was a really good official otherwise. (Another way of saying that is: I should have so few problems!)

Welcome to the forum, new2hoops! I'd like to suggest that whether it is "easy" or not depends on your motivation. If someone said: "I'll give you $1 million dollars if you don't say a word during this basketball game," I am confident that you would walk away with $1 million of easy money. Now, if someone says: "I'll appreciate it if you be a credit to the profession/avocation of officiating and refrain from making comments during this basketball game," if that's not easy for you, it's only because being a credit to the profession/avocation is not as strong a motivator for you. Perhaps you disagree that refraining from comment is good, but in any event the reason why it is not easy is because you lack the motivation.

As a former individual who was in the it's-not-easy-to-stay-quiet-in-the-face-of-incompetent-officials camp, let me invite you to come over to the it's-really-fun-to-just-sit-back-and-enjoy-watching-and-perhaps-learning-from-my-colleagues camp. It takes time to make the trip, but there's a lot of satisfaction once you do.

Again, welcome.

I think the original situation is very serious, especially in the case of a rookie official being chided by a veteran in the stands. It's hard enough to recruit new guys, but this is the type of thing that drives people who start officiating away. I don't know what the penalty should be, but it should be addressed.

Same thing happened to me
 

I was the R in a 4th grade girls CYO game. 7 to 8..... Very close game, low scoring, let alot of travels, etc... go...

My parter was a 1st year basketball ref, and I think we did a very good job considering it was the "little girls."

After the game, one of the little girls dad's walks down from the stands --- im changing my shoes and hear "this guy is horrible... So I look up and the guy is talking to the next set of officials ready to take the court (IABBO guys).

So I ask him what did I do wrong... he said everything

He asked me my name --- I told him

Then I asked who are you... He says - hes been reffin for 18 years..... "and im gonna call tom - you shouldnt be reffin these games - your not good enough"

Needless to say Tom is my assigner for CYO, and I had no problems in the past with officials, coaches, players, etc...

No complaints etc... So my question is - what should I do? Call Tom? Let it go?

Thanks

Re: Same thing happened to me
 

Call Tom. I can't believe that any assignor wants one of his officials to conduct himself publically like Mr. 18-Year Official did. It's just completely wrong. It's unprofessional and unethical as hell.

In my state there have been umpires in baseball suspended for criticizing umpires at a game. The article in the state news did not mention whether or not the game umps were good or bad. It simply does not matter. If you do it here publicly you risk suspension, and rightly so, IMO.

In my first season I was working a CYO 8th grade game. The coach of the one team was riding me very hard. He was giving me a hard time about everything I did. From my calls, to my position on the floor, my hand signals, everything. I could not figure out what this guy’s problem with me was. I found out after the game that he was a long time IAABO official with the same board as me. He was giving me a hard time because I was new. You would think a veteran official like this would want to come to me after the game and talk to me about how I was calling the game and maybe give me some CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Not try to undress me on the court. I had to work a game he was coaching again a month later. By this time I had a lot more games under my belt and I was a little more confident. He tried giving me a hard time once more and I gave him the T early. I really felt vindicated. I never had a problem with him after that, but it never should have come to that in the first place. I never reported it to my association and looking back maybe I should have.
In our association it is strongly communicated that officials do not criticize other officials publicly, and veteran official are encouraged to help the rookies. I look at it as one of the many experiences that have help make me a better official.

We had/have the same problem whereas one of the ref's was a coach. In the first instance (had), he was suspended from the board and eventually gave up officiating. The second instance (have), this person is an assistant coach and gives most officials hell. I would think there is a code of ethics among us officials, but that goes out the window. IMHO, its is down right sad and show poor sportsmanship.

What? Excuse me? Who on your board allows an assistant to give him/her hell from the bench? No coach should be allowed to behave like a maniac, but an assistant should get ZERO latitude. Whack and toss.

Well she always give the people hell that allows her to. Of course, she doesnt give me hell at all. Its the new officials that she rides and gets away with it.

Every board needs somebody to teach new officials where to draw the line :D Besides, she gets paid the same whether she sticks around for the end of the game or not!

i had my ex-partners ripping on me during a game, the whole town knew they were refs, and so jumped on the bandwagon when they started on me again. so i did what i thought was legitimate. *tweet* "coach will you please remove these spectators, otherwise i am going to have to give you an indirect technical for your followers inciting negative crowd reactions". It was so funny, the coaches HAPPILY ( the coaches didnt like these 2 guys, and told our association if they were ever assigned to their games, to cancel the games as they would not be leaving as soon as they walked into the gym) escorted these gentlemen out of the gym, and there was no further incidents...it would appear that without 2 refs sitting in the stands ridiculing us and no one in the crowd with any other basketball experience that my partner and I really were not that bad.

Unfortunately, that action wouldn't be legitimate under NFHS or NCAA rules. If you ever did have to call that "T", it's charged to the <b>team</b>. There's no indirect technical foul charged to to the head coach.

JR, what are you doing posting at 3:20 am?!?! Just gotta check the board on the way to the bathroom?

Chuck, at my age I still sleep like a baby. I wake up every two hours crying and having to go the bathroom.

You've got a dog, haven't you? What's <b>your</b> secret? My 2 dogs usually both have to go outside in the middle of the night. And my wife is great at feigning a coma at that time. I'm thinking of putting Depends on both of 'em.

The only reason, the <font size = +4>ONLY</font> reason, that I still have a dog is that he sleeps through the night in his crate. He would be long gone if he got us up in the night.

Crate? You make the dog sleep in a crate? A <b>crate</b>?

Yer lucky. Mine sleep on the bed and they take up more freaking room than a people, even though neither of 'em hits 15#. They both snore too. As does my wife. Sometimes the bedroom sounds like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir on crank performing selections from that great Julie Andrews movie- <i>The Sound of Asthma</i>. They hit about 5.6 on the Richter Scale too.....every damn night.

Grumble, grumble, grumble......

i actually had this same thing happen 13 years ago in my first season. had 7/8 g games. had 2 fans setting in the stands calling me homer everytime up & down the floor. looked up just to see who was doing it. lo and behold 2 of our suposedly big time officials in our local assoc. to this day, everytime i see them i want to tell them about it. i don't think any official attending a game as a fan, should ever yell at the officials. we already have enough other people doing it!

You had a dog snore "The Sound of Asthma" in duet with JR's wife while sleeping in your bed? Wow! What a coincidence!

Huh? Oh, you mean. . . you're actually on-topic?

Never mind.

15#??

You should check again, I think what you might have are a couple of large cats.

More like large rats.....

Of course Woody, your dog, has to wear a license plate....and a bib around his neck to catch the drool....

Hmmmmmm......come to think of it, Woody sounds just like my date to the senior prom in high school....
Mont Bertha...

I've heard them perform that live. With the accoustics in the tabernacle, it's Amazing! :D

My wife is on the local fire dept and the other morning at 3 am the d*** pager goes off. Someone called 911 because at 2 a.m. he let out his dog to go to the bathroom, the dog saw a squirrel and chased it and got his head stuck in a fence. After an hour of trying to free the cur the dog owner called for backup. My wife passed on that call.

Both of whom? Your wife and one of the dogs?

You should try sharing the bed with a 115# Akita! My son was out of town one night this past weekend and I took care of the dog at my son's home. My wife doesn't allow the dog in our home because he sheds so much. Anyway, my son allows the dog to sleep on the bed with him and the dog wanted to continue that with me, but I kept kicking him off the bed. Don't think either of us slept much that night and the dog also snores!

Did he also get first shower????