The Official Forum

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   This is what I live for (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/24377-what-i-live.html)

Back In The Saddle Sat Jan 21, 2006 11:19pm

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
And BITS, there is a better way to spend a Friday night. Working that game.;)

One day I hope it will be :)

ChuckElias Sun Jan 22, 2006 09:10am

Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
BTW, does this have anything to do with why they stop the clock after made baskets in the NCAA? To allow for these kinds of time out requests without having to fuss with the clock?
No. The NBA and NCAA stop the clock after a made basket in the closing minute(s) of the game so that the team that's leading can't simply hold the ball OOB and let the last 4.9 seconds of the game elapse. They want to force the team to play that last 5 seconds.

Jurassic Referee Sun Jan 22, 2006 10:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
BTW, does this have anything to do with why they stop the clock after made baskets in the NCAA? To allow for these kinds of time out requests without having to fuss with the clock?
No. The NBA and NCAA stop the clock after a made basket in the closing minute(s) of the game so <font color = red>that the team that's leading can't simply hold the ball OOB and let the last 4.9 seconds of the game elapse. They want to force the team to play that last 5 seconds.</font>

Then why doesn't that rule only apply to the last 5 seconds instead of the whole last minute, Mr. Logic Person?

ChuckElias Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
The NBA and NCAA stop the clock after a made basket in the closing minute(s) of the game so <font color = red>that the team that's leading can't simply hold the ball OOB and let the last 4.9 seconds of the game elapse. They want to force the team to play that last 5 seconds.</font>
Then why doesn't that rule only apply to the last 5 seconds instead of the whole last minute, Mr. Logic Person?

Um, b/c you can't run out the last 5 seconds of the game while you're still in the first minue of the game? Seems like pretty simple logic to me. :shrug:

devdog69 Sun Jan 22, 2006 12:50pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I'm going with 5.10.1D on this play, which means all the time would have to be put back on the clock. Since .8 would be less than 1 second, based on 5.10.1D, it would not be possible to put .8 back up.


5.10.1

COMMENT: Timing mistakes which may be corrected are limited to those which result from the timer's neglect to stop or start the clock as specified by the rules. The rules do not permit the referee to correct situations resulting in normal reaction time of the timer which results in a “lag” in stopping the clock. By interpretation, “lag or reaction” time is limited to one second when the official's signal is heard and/or seen clearly. One second or the “reaction” time is interpreted to have elapsed from the time the signal was made until the official glanced at the clock. The additional three seconds which subsequently ran off the clock is considered a timing mistake.

What we do know was that the official saw the request and THEN looked at the clock.

We don't know if the official blew his whistle or not, but if the sequence was TO, whistle, look at clock by rule lag time is interpreted as the time it took the official to look at the clock, so it does not need to be a second.

The one second of lag time is only locked in as one second if the official was looking at the clock at the time the whistle blows, which is what situation D says. That did not happen in this case as written.

Yes, but how do we KNOW that only 1 second ticked off? I don't deny that that's a possibility but the truth is we don't know what happened.

We don't need to KNOW that 1 second ticked off. The comment very clearly states that the time it takes the official to look up at the clock is interpreted to be enough 'reaction' time. If the official looked up and saw the clock after seeing the timeout signal and saw 0.8, he/she should put 0.8 on the clock.

Jurassic Referee Sun Jan 22, 2006 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
The NBA and NCAA stop the clock after a made basket in the closing minute(s) of the game so <font color = red>that the team that's leading can't simply hold the ball OOB and let the last 4.9 seconds of the game elapse. They want to force the team to play that last 5 seconds.</font>
Then why doesn't that rule only apply to the last 5 seconds instead of the whole last minute, Mr. Logic Person?

Um, <font color = red>b/c you can't run out the last 5 seconds of the game while you're still in the <b>first</b> minute of the game? </font> Seems like pretty simple logic to me.

And you also can't run out the clock if you're in the first 55 seconds of the <b>last</b> minute of the game either.....

Which was my point. Now, Mr. Logic/WeaselBoy, again.....why should the rule apply to <b>ANY</b> other time during the game, rather than very specifically during the last 5 seconds of the game, if time isn't gonna run out during any other time?

ChuckElias Sun Jan 22, 2006 02:27pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
why should the rule apply to <b>ANY</b> other time during the game, rather than very specifically during the last 5 seconds of the game, if time isn't gonna run out during any other time?
Because if you want to use such a rule, you've got to pick some time at which the provision kicks in. Since it would probably be tough to administer only in the last 5 seconds, and would make the game too long if you used it through the entire game, you have to pick some other arbitrary time. The rulesmakers picked 1 minute.

Why should the mercy rule kick in at 30 points instead of 32? Same thing. Have to pick some arbitrary number and that one doesn't seem unreasonable. :double shrug:

Jurassic Referee Sun Jan 22, 2006 02:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
why should the rule apply to <b>ANY</b> other time during the game, rather than very specifically during the last 5 seconds of the game, if time isn't gonna run out during any other time?
Because if you want to use such a rule, you've got to pick some time at which the provision kicks in. Since it would probably be tough to administer only in the last 5 seconds, and would make the game too long if you used it through the entire game, you have to pick some other arbitrary time. The rulesmakers picked 1 minute.


Yabut, <b>you</b> said that the rule was <b>only</b> implemented to cover the last 5 seconds of a quarter. You said that. I heard ya. If so, then <b>why</b> would the rulesmakers have have to cover <b>any</b> other period of play other than that? They coulda said "This rule only applies to the last 5 seconds of each quarter".

I'm not giving up until it's time to pop a brownpop and watch the start of the first quarter.

Anybody but Seattle.....we'll never hear the end of it from Rocky....the little sh!t will be insufferable(much like you and the other Pats' fans were over the last few years).....

ChuckElias Sun Jan 22, 2006 02:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Yabut, <b>you</b> said that the rule was <b>only</b> implemented to cover the last 5 seconds of a quarter. You said that. I heard ya.
No, I didn't. I said "the last 5 seconds of the game". So there. Nyahhhh. I win. Go Seahawks.

Jurassic Referee Sun Jan 22, 2006 02:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
[/B]
Go Seahawks. [/B][/QUOTE]I kew it it, I knew it.....

It's some kinda national conspiracy funded by the NAATP(National Association for the Advancement of Tiny People....

It\'s true, it\'s true......

ChuckElias Sun Jan 22, 2006 03:02pm

I\'m only rooting for \'em to make you miserable :D

BktBallRef Sun Jan 22, 2006 03:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by devdog69
We don\'t need to KNOW that 1 second ticked off. The comment very clearly states that the time it takes the official to look up at the clock is interpreted to be enough \'reaction\' time. If the official looked up and saw the clock after seeing the timeout signal and saw 0.8, he/she should put 0.8 on the clock.
Not true. If it were true, we would simply ALWAYS reset the clock to what the official saw when he looked at it. Two separate case plays wouldn\'t be necessary. For all we know, he didn\'t look at the clock until the horn sounded.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 22nd, 2006 at 03:45 PM]

blindzebra Sun Jan 22, 2006 03:50pm

What is being lost here is just how often are we looking at the clock as we or are partner blows the whistle?

I think most of us will routinely glance at the clock after every whistle, but really how often are we looking directly at the clock during the whistle?

I\'d say it would be extremely rare for an official to ever have definite knowledge of exactly 1 second of lag time running off, so in most cases we will be dealing with the sequence of whistle, then look and interpreted lag time with the time being put back up.

I\'d like to see the rules reflect the reality of the situation, instead of adding the confusion of 1 second of lag time is allowed, because too many officials may think that means a second always needs to come off the clock.

ShadowStripes Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:53pm

Well, I see this argument rears its ugly head again. Count me in the camp supporting putting .8 back on the clock. Also, count me in the camp wanting a specific rule and case example in the new NFHS rules to clear this up once and for all.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:13pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1