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-   -   Rule 4 under definitions of act of shooting (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/24366-rule-4-under-definitions-act-shooting.html)

DentalCoug Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:12pm

Hey everyone. I am new to the board. Officiated for several years but am currently on leave while i attend dental school. Anyway, i am playing in a league (with untrained officials and director) and the following rule came under dispute when a player when up for a 'shot', was fouled in mid-air, and then never released the ball but instead fell to the floor waiting for the wistle. The player jumped from behind the 3-point line so when the official ruled 3 free throws i naturally disputed the call saying that by definition a shot must involve the release of the ball. Below is the rule i received from the director who continues to argue the otherway around. I also have the following quote from him ... "I can't belive you don't get call a shooting foul if the shooter is unable to get the shot of. If that were true it would be smart to foul guys so hard they can't get the shot off.. that seems stupid."

What's your interpretation?

NHSAA - Rule 4 under one of the definitions of act of shooting, try, etc.

4-41 defines when a try starts and when it ends. As part of the rule,
the "act of shooting" is defined. Article 3 says it best: "The try
starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the
release of the ball."

deecee Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:15pm

if you read
 
what you quoted it doesnt say anything about the ball having to be released -- it says motion that precedes the habitiual release -- well if player A1 is going for a layup and gets nailed from the rear and hits the floor but he never got the shot off does that mean he gets the ball OOB or 2 shots --

your director and refs got it right -- the shot doesnt have to leave his hands.

DentalCoug Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:21pm

if the shooting motion is one that "habitually" preceeds the release
 
of the ball and the player does not release the ball, how is it a shot then?

If it is habitual, then if he begins, he will finish otherwise it is not habitual.

mick Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DentalCoug
a player when up for a 'shot', was fouled in mid-air, and then never released the ball but instead fell to the floor waiting for the wistle. The player jumped from behind the 3-point line so when the official ruled 3 free throws i naturally disputed the call


NHSAA - Rule 4 under one of the definitions of act of shooting, try, etc.

4-41 defines when a try starts and when it ends. As part of the rule,
the "act of shooting" is defined. Article 3 says it best: "The try
starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the
release of the ball."

DentalCoug,
Welcome to the forum.

There is little to dispute.
The shooter had started the try and was fouled during the try. --> Shooting foul

If the shooter had released the ball and then was fouled after the release, but was still airborne:
<LI>NCAA Men - non shooting foul.
<LI>High School - shooting foul.

mick

deecee Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:26pm

ok
 
once again player under the basket goes up for a layup and gets hit hard from behind -- as soon as hes hit another player gets his hand on the ball so the ball never leaves his hand

jump ball? or shooting foul?

mick Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:30pm

Re: if the shooting motion is one that
 
Quote:

Originally posted by DentalCoug
of the ball and the player does not release the ball, how is it a shot then?

If it is habitual, then if he begins, he will finish otherwise it is not habitual.

The act of shooting goes from habitual movement to the release (or until the shooter lands).
In your sitch the player was fouled in the act of shooting.

The timing of the foul was anytime during the act, not after the (F)act.
mick


blindzebra Fri Jan 20, 2006 04:49pm

RULE 4 SECTION 41

ART. 2 . . . A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three points by throwing the ball into a team's own basket. A player is trying for goal when the player has the ball and in the official's judgment is throwing or attempting to throw for goal. It is not essential that the ball leave the player's hand as a foul could prevent release of the ball.

rotationslim Fri Jan 20, 2006 05:34pm

"Untrained director"
 
DentalCoug is right, director of his program is "untrained" but it turns out he spends a lot of time on this forum learning... and whenever a question like this comes up he gets quick, accurate answers from this forum... I had already posted and recieve answers on his issue hours earlier!

I may not have all that "booklearnin'" but I am smart enough to know where to get answers.

Peace, Out
Rotation Slim aka-- "untrained director"

M&M Guy Fri Jan 20, 2006 05:53pm

Will any money change hands as a result of any "friendly" wager put on the answer? 10% plus a beverage of choice goes to the answering parties...

Good job on knowing where to check, Mr. Untrained Director, sir! In fact, you should have any player that questions a call, and is incorrect, call you that for a two-week period. :D

deecee Sat Jan 21, 2006 02:41pm

funny
 
ive never seen this ever happen in a forum..i think you dentalcough owe someone an appology

rainmaker Sat Jan 21, 2006 08:58pm

Re: funny
 
Quote:

Originally posted by deecee
ive never seen this ever happen in a forum..i think you dentalcough owe someone an appology
for what?!?


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