This didn't happen to me but was brought up in the locker room.

.3 second left in game Team A has ball OOB in front court. They are down by 1 point. A1 throws the ball toward the basket. Player B1 jumps up deflects the ball. The ball goes off the backboard, time expires, then the ball goes in the basket.

Do you count the basket?

No. It was not a try because A1 had the ball during a throwin so the ball becomes dead at the horn. We had a similar discussion on a slightly different play.

Read this thread

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/24210

no basket
 

it is not considered a try, but a defensive tip. A try can go in after time expires and horn sounds (as long as it is released before the clock expires) and be good, defensive tips cannot.

Re: no basket
 

That is true, but it would probably be good to be clear that if a try is released before the horn, is then tipped by the defense and goes in, it is still a try and the basket counts. That is different that the throw-in case.

thank you
 

for adding that.

You cannot call 3 seconds at that point of the game. :(

Sorry, wrong post. :D

Peace

re: .3 seconds, cont'd.
 

I was hoping someone could provide some quoted rule or case book material that clarifies the correctness of awarding no points on the ".3 seconds remaining-ball passed inbounds-tipped by B1 prior to the horn sounding" situation. I'm still unconvinced of the correctness of this ruling, and am still inclined to award 2 points to A. All I can come up with is the following:

2005-06 NFHS Rule 5.1.1 "A goal is made when a live ball enters the basket from above and remains in or passes through."

NFHS 2004-05 Case 5.2.1-D "...A1 makes a throw-in from out of bounds...The throw-in pass is deflected at A's free throw line by B1 and then goes directly through A's basket. Ruling: Score two points for Team A. The throw-in ended when the ball was touched by an inbounds player and the live ball subsequently passed through the basket. The fact that it was not a try or tap for goal does not affect the scoring of two points."

So I gather that the consensus here is that the ball is dead, despite being last touched legally by a player with inbounds status before the horn sounded. I would just like to read something that clarifies that. - I did read the other listed thread http://www.officialforum.com/thread/24210, but it didn't do the trick for me.

The majority of what was discussed was that, since there was a defensive tip, that the ball was dead on the horn. But would we wave off a successful try that continues through the basket that was partially blocked just after its release by the shooter? ( - Try and contact prior to the horn sounding) Or, more relevant than that, would we wave off an "alley-oop" PASS (clearly a pass - released "chest pass" style by the passer) that is deflected by a B1, who is fronting A1, who the ball is intended for - both of whom are within TWO feet of the basket as they jump, followed by the ball entering the basket as before (all contact prior to the horn sounding)?

The only thing I can find that somewhat pertains to this is:

NFHS 2004-05 Case 6.7.6-A "A1 passes the ball to A2. However, A2 is not looking. The ball strikes A2 on the back of the head, and then goes directly above the basket of Team A...time expires and subsequently [the ball] enters the basket. Ruling: No goal. The ball rebounding from A2's head is not considered a try or a tap. A tap is made with the hand(s)....In this situation, the ball became dead immediately when time expired."

In the discussed instance, however, the ball WAS touched by a hand.

I guess what I'm looking for is rule or case material stating that a defensive deflection of anything other than a try or tap for goal would cause the ball to become dead if time subsequently expires.

Respectfully submitted,

[Edited by HawkeyeCubP on Jan 19th, 2006 at 08:15 PM]

Re: re: .3 seconds, cont'd.
 

You're looking for the wrong thing. it is'nt the deflection that causes the ball to become dead. It is the horn that makes the ball become dead. I don't have my rulebook with me, but basically, as soon as the horn sounds, the ball is dead where it is, UNLESS IT IS IN THE AIR FOR A TAP OR TRY, in which case it does not become dead until such time as the goal is scored or misses.

Basket is good!!!!

I am going to take you through why. Look at casebook 5.2.1 Sit (D) this covers throwin after a "T".

The situation in casebook refers you to rule 4-41-4. However, you must also take a look at art..6 which will refer you to 5-2-5 which covers .3 second or less.

Bottom line basket is good!!!!

Re: Re: re: .3 seconds, cont'd.
 

How could that be? The horn does not cause the to become dead just because it sounded. The ending of the action does.

Sounds like Referee magazine, Feb 2006 CasePlay last Second Tap, page 20.

PS: They say NO Basket. Since a tap attempt must be made at the players correct basket to be a legitimate "try".

A legitimate try does not end if in flight at the horn, but this is NOT a ligitimate attempt and time expired in your scenario - no basket.

Better try the top line then. A basket only counts if the ball is live when it passes throught the basket. The ball is dead when the horn sounds unless it is in the air on a try/tap. A try or tap can only occur by a team attempting to put the ball in their own basket.

I will help out a little here.

Read 6-7-6. Then it says see exception, look at the exception.

"The ball does not become dead until the try or tap ends, or until the airborne shooter returns to the floor"

Definition of try 4-40-2.

That about covers it.

Ok, I am wrong. It is not a legitimate try or tap.

No Basket!!!!!!

And you just became a better official. :)

[Edited by Nevadaref on Jan 20th, 2006 at 03:06 AM]

He posted... <font size = 14>.3</font size>

:D

Thank you everyone. I've been working it over in my head since leaving the office and I concur with your explanations.

I did think of one other thing (which is extremely silly, but it could happen, and I'd be suprised if there hasn't ever been a case written about it): Gym or arena with high ceiling - A is ahead by one or two points - A1, in a celebratory display, heaves the ball up into the air after receiving the inbounds pass in A's backcourt - ball is released prior to horn sounding, and subsequently goes through B's basket. No points awarded, I suppose. But I wouldn't want to have to explain it to B's head coach, who would've undoubtedly seen it.

Anyone ever seen or read of anything like that?

Thank you again to everyone for your responses.

Respectfully submitted,

A reading from the book of . . .
 

6-7 NOTE:

"If A1's try or tap is legally touched in flight, the goal counts if made, if the horn sounds before or after the legal touching . . . "

Re: A reading from the book of . . .
 

Exactly. And if it ain't a "try or tap", like...maybe if it's a throw-in instead, then it doesn't count. Which is what everybody has been saying.

Re: Re: A reading from the book of . . .
 

Or a "celebratory toss in the air". - Not a try so no basket.

How do you handle this situation in the casebook? Is it any different?

Look at casebook 5.2.1 Sit (D) this covers throwin after a "T".

That is the objective! Thanks Nevada

That situation is different in that there's no horn going off before the ball went through in that case play, thus making the ball dead. That's exactly why there's </b>no</b> basket in the play that we've been discussing.

It's two completely different situations that are still using the same principle-- i.e. a tipped throw-in is <b>not</b> a tap or try.

Re: Re: A reading from the book of . . .
 

Exactly.

No basket and here is why.

4-41 defines shooting, try or tap for goal. Since B1 deflected an inbounds pass towards A's basket, this does not qualify as a try or tap for goal by B1.

6-7 defines when a ball becomes dead with 6-7-6 becoming the important article (the period ending)

5-1-1 says a goal can only be counted when a live ball enters the goal from above.

So, the ball is dead when the period ends in this case and since the ball did not enter the basket before the end of the period, no basket is counted, even though the ball went through the goal after the horn ending the period.

If it went into the home team's basket, you better run like hell after canceling it. Nobody in the gym is going to like it.

Thanks, J. Ref.

Thanks, JRef

True, true, true.

This is all buried so deep down in the rulebook, I guarantee a reaction of epic proportions.

Can you imagine the reaction waving this off?