Third Direct Technical

chayce · #1 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 10:48pm

One of my regular partners just called with the following scenario:

Coach gets a second direct technical and is ejected. On the way off of the floor, he bumps one of the officials and that official gives him a third technical.

Is this correct? They shot six free throws.

I thought you could no longer give a coach additional technicals after an ejection and the only other option is to decide if the coaches behavior warrants a forfeit. 10.5.4.2 (p. 64 of the rule book) However, I can not find any additional rule book/case book information regarding this situation. Anyone??

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 11:09pm

First, the rule is 10-5-4 Penalty 2, not 10.5.4.2. Dots are case plays, dashes are rules.

There's no rule that says you can't hit a coach with a third T. I hope they also reported the incident to the state.

fonzzy07 · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 11:15pm

I agree, this needs to be reported.

Snake~eyes · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Jan 05, 2006, 11:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
First, the rule is 10-5-4 Penalty 2, not 10.5.4.2. Dots are case plays, dashes are rules.

There's no rule that says you can't hit a coach with a third T. I hope they also reported the incident to the state.

Agree, T 'em up again and file a report.

SmokeEater · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 09:01am

The third T now gets assessed as a Bench Direct to the replacement coach I think as well. So if they have previous technicals it could result in their ejection as well.

Jurassic Referee · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 09:21am

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokeEater
The third T now gets assessed as a Bench Direct to the replacement coach I think as well. So if they have previous technicals it could result in their ejection as well.

Rules citation?

SmokeEater · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 09:28am

I don't believe there is an exact example for this situation. Once the coach is ejected any further infractions (IMO) should be treated no differently then if a fan were to commit the act. Originally I was thinking he became bench personal when he was ejected. So in section 10 the penalty assessed is an indirect to the new coach. I wait to see if I am totally out to lunch on this one but it would need to be addressed by more then just a report and 2 more free throws. Again just my opinion and interpretation.

Please educate me further if this is just plain wrong.

[Edited by SmokeEater on Jan 6th, 2006 at 09:32 AM]

Jurassic Referee · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 09:39am

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokeEater
I don't believe there is an exact example for this situation. Once the coach is ejected any further infractions (IMO) should be treated no differently then if a fan were to commit the act. So in section 10 the penalty assessed is an indirect to the new coach. I wait to see if I am totally out to lunch on this one but it would need to be addressed by more then just a report and 2 more free throws. Again just my opinion and interpretation.

Please educate me further if this is just plain wrong.

Well, right off the bat, giving out technical fouls to a fan for doing something isn't usually a good idea. However, if you do decide to do that, it's a team technical foul(as per casebook play 2.8.1COMMENT) and the head coach would not get an indirect "T".

Never make a call that you can't back up with a rules citation of some type. And especially, don't be tossing coaches(no matter how pleasurable it may be be) if you can't find something in writing that will back you up later if questions get asked(which they will). Jmo.

Jurassic Referee · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 09:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokeEater
Originally I was thinking he became bench personal when he was ejected. So in section 10 the penalty assessed is an indirect to the new coach.

You added this sentence after I answered you original post, so I'll respond to it too.

The head coach can't become bench personnel. He's not allowed on the bench. After ejection, the coach has to leave the vicinity of the playing area. Rule 10-4-5PENALTY-NOTE.

SmokeEater · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 09:45am

Yes well there is a section in the rules supporting penalties for Unsporting conduct by followers, and bench personel. I just wasn't sure how this situation would apply. I do remember that the replacement coach does not inherit previous technicals but is responsible for any that were assessed directly to him prior to taking over.

That was really my basis for the response. Can I give a direct rules citation, no I don't have a current book in front of me. I just remember the penalties are in section 10, NCAA rule book. I do agree with you 100% that calls are not to be made up and need support.

[Edited by SmokeEater on Jan 6th, 2006 at 09:49 AM]

ChuckElias · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 09:53am

Quote:

Originally posted by chayce
I thought you could no longer give a coach additional technicals after an ejection

This is true in NCAA (thank you, Bobby Knight), but not in HS.

SmokeEater · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 09:54am

Thanks JR.

I did look up the rule on the internet and read them over. Agreed it becomes a team Technical and is not applied to any one member, does not count toward disqualification or bonus.

I am still not satisfied that only giving 2 more free throws and making a report would be sufficient. I guess it would depend on the severity of the bump. I would tend to lean toward a forfeit if the bump was intentional and agressive.

SmokeEater

We all have something to teach and learn.

Jurassic Referee · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 10:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokeEater

I am still not satisfied that only giving 2 more free throws and making a report would be sufficient.

That we agree on. If it looked like deliberate physical contact, I would recommend making a police report. The police may not want to follow it up, but at least it's on the record. That's a nice addition to the report going in. And if the contact was fairly severe, then I'd certainly like to definitely see charges laid.

BktBallRef · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 10:51am

Quote:

Originally posted by SmokeEater
I would tend to lean toward a forfeit if the bump was intentional and agressive.

Don't penalize the kids because their coach is an idiot. Let the state association handle the coach, or file charges if you like. But there's no reason to forgeit the game in this situation.

firedoc · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 06, 2006, 11:07am

I had a similar episode a few years ago. I T'd the coach in a boys JV game. As I moved towards the table he said, loudly, "you suck". Of course I issued an immediate second T. As I was again headed to the table he followed me saying "Go ahead, all another one." At this point my partner was there and issued the third T.

In my county on Long Island, NY, all ejections are reported by writing to the governing body within 24 hours. The ejected person, as a rule, is suspended for at least 1 game. In this case I got a phone call from the AD of the school district apologizing to me and saying that the coach would be dealt with harshly.