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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 04:02am
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Trying to determine if a shot which has been blocked or misdirected by one defender can be goal tended by another defender.

ie. I am driving the lane and on the way up one defender tips or deflects my layup attempt, however, it still has a chance of going in. On it's way down toward the rim, another player pulls it out of the air/goaltends it. Is he allowed to do that?

If defender 1 tipped/blocked/deflected my shot and it still went in, I would still get credited for the shot, so it would stand to reason to me that if defender 2 pulls that ball out of there, it should still be deemed a goaltend.

Does anyone know the answer? If so, is this documented anywhere?

Thanks,
Jason
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 04:16am
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The try does not end on the first touch, so it is still a try above the ring, in it's downward flight, with a chance to go in when the second player contacts the ball. 9.12 situation C.
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 07:59am
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blindzebra, thanks very much for the quick response. Man, you guys are fast. I am new to the forum, and am not a referee, so I am not sure where I can actually find 9.12 situation C. Can you point me to a URL where those official rules are kept?

Thanks again,
Jason
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 08:40am
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Jason,

BZ was refering you to the National Federation of High Schools "Case Book", which is a book of plays and the correct rulings on them. Unfortunately, the NFHS only makes the case book available online for people who pay for it. If you really wanted to, you could go to a local sporting goods store and buy the case book in print for about $6, I think.

But I bet somebody will be good enough to cut and paste the full ruling for you later this morning.

Good question, by the way. Not a situation that we see very often.
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 09:37am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Jason,

I bet somebody will be good enough to cut and paste the full ruling for you later this morning.
9.12. Situation C

B1 touches A1's try for field goal while the ball is in downward flight outside the cylinder and above ring level.

RULING: The defensive goaltending causes the ball to become dead immediately and two points are awarded to Team A.

Z
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 09:54am
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Thanks, Z, but Jason already knew that much. The question was whether his shot remains a try after being touched by a defender. The answer is yes, of course; but I don't know if there's a case play that directly addresses that sitch.
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 10:15am
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Originally posted by ChuckElias
Thanks, Z, but Jason already knew that much. The question was whether his shot remains a try after being touched by a defender. The answer is yes, of course; but I don't know if there's a case play that directly addresses that sitch.
Case book play 4.41.4SitA sez that a defender legally touching a try does not cause the try to end.
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 10:26am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Case book play 4.41.4SitA sez that a defender legally touching a try does not cause the try to end.
Took ya long enough to get here this morning, ya old geezer. Didja try to stay up for the end of the Rose Bowl last night or what?
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 10:47am
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Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Case book play 4.41.4SitA sez that a defender legally touching a try does not cause the try to end.
Took ya long enough to get here this morning, ya old geezer. Didja try to stay up for the end of the Rose Bowl last night or what?
Been up for hours actually, and ,yes, I stayed up to watch the end of the Rose Bowl. There's a reason that Petey Carroll ain't in the NFL anymore. That reason is you don't go for it on 4th and 2 with 2 minutes to go when you can pin a team back on it's own goal line. Fourth and 6"- yes. Fourth and 1- maybe. Fourth and 2? Dumb, dumb, dumb.....

Looked good on him after they lost.
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 12:05pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Case book play 4.41.4SitA sez that a defender legally touching a try does not cause the try to end.
Took ya long enough to get here this morning, ya old geezer. Didja try to stay up for the end of the Rose Bowl last night or what?
Been up for hours actually, and ,yes, I stayed up to watch the end of the Rose Bowl. There's a reason that Petey Carroll ain't in the NFL anymore. That reason is you don't go for it on 4th and 2 with 2 minutes to go when you can pin a team back on it's own goal line. Fourth and 6"- yes. Fourth and 1- maybe. Fourth and 2? Dumb, dumb, dumb.....

Looked good on him after they lost.
Sorry to disagree.
My defense not showing sign's of stopping them.
I have 2 Heisman winners on the team
I have the strongest offense in the last 15 years in college football
I got a full back averaging 4+ yards a carry
I need six feet to win a national championship.

Right call IMHO.

What P.C. didn't count on was the face mask on third down three plays later. Thats the one play SC would want a do-over on.
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 01:21pm
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okay, so as long as we're off-topic, why did he take a TO with 19 seconds to go? Why not save it for later? And why did their defense have so much right side and no left side in the last minute? Sheez, they'd have been better off to let Texas score with a minute to go, and then they'd have had time to come back. Or is that like "If I get behind right at the beginning, it gives me more time to catch up!"
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 01:35pm
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Originally posted by Ref Daddy
I have 2 Heisman winners on the team
Yeah...and why was one of them (Bush) standing on the SIDELINES when USC went for it!?

I'm not questioning PC's decision...I'm just questioning the call. Bush opens up the possibility of a) a play action pass b)a sweep c)"second man through" d)screen e)bootleg

Some say it shows USC's arrogance..."here is our one back...now stop him."

Texas did.

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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 03:05pm
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Great stuff guys! Thanks!!

We went into overtime of a game last night because the ref didn't rule this a goal tend.

We still pulled out the W, however.
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Old Thu Jan 05, 2006, 03:20pm
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Originally posted by aurasport
Great stuff guys! Thanks!!

We went into overtime of a game last night because the ref didn't rule this a goal tend.

We still pulled out the W, however.
Before you get too far along the path of maybe blaming it on a wrong call, you should be aware that it's still a judgement call if the shot had a chance to go in after the initial block. If the official though that the ball was off-line and had no chance of going, then goal-tending was not applicable.

None of us can tell you what the correct call should have been because none of us saw it. We can only tell you the applicable rules, but only the official that made the call can tell you how he applied those rules. Iow, don't get carried away. There's a reasonable chance that the official did make the right call. That call depends on what he saw, not what you saw.
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