How far will you go to save a game?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by M&M Guy
In a lot of cases, that's true. But there are still schools in my area that only hire 2 officials, and they are trying to convince other schools to do the same because they claim they don't see a better game called with 3. Obviously you and I know that has more to do with the specific officials than the 3-person system. Whether it's just old-fashioned thinking that will eventually go away, or if it's gaining momentum, has yet to be seen.

Refresh my memory. What part of the state do you live? I am mostly talking about the West Central part of the state because that is where I started. So areas like Peoria and Springfield are in that area. Those areas have pretty much left 2 Person behind. Also the schools usually hire (mostly Class A schools) officials to work both games when they have a 3 Person crew. So just from a financial position they save money when they hire 3 officials for the night rather than 5 officials.

Originally posted by M&M Guy
But, I'll bet if you poll coaches and AD's about which is more important, working within the system or getting the call right, the vast majority will say get the call right. It's up to us as officials to show them working within the system is usually the best way to get it right.

Of course that is what they are going to say. They think we all just watch the ball most of the time anyway. I think from an officiating point of view we have to try to over come that way of thinking. At least in 3 Person I know I have a longer look at a situation than in 2 Person. If I pass on something there is a reason. I hate it when officials make calls when they are not close to the play or saw the very end of a play. I think we have to fight the urge to just make a call just to make a call.

Peace

[brianp134]

Originally posted by M&M Guy

The poll is hypothetical - I never met George Gallup so I don't know the right way to do a poll anyway. The point I way trying to make was the difference between working for a supervisor/assignor vs. working for the school. A supervisor will be much more aware of the mechanics, and whether the officials are working within the system, while an AD or coach just cares about getting the calls right. (Of course, if I'm doing the poll during the game, the coach just wants the calls in favor of his/her team. But that's another discussion.)

Maybe it comes from attending NCAA-W camps, and there may be a slightly different philosophy here, but "getting it right" means more than just working the system correctly, it also means making the right calls. Granted, if we do the things we're supposed to do, we will be in postion to see the things we need to see, and then make the right calls. But sometimes stuff happens. If a ball comes out of my area and goes OOB on my partner's line, and they ask for help because they're not sure, I'm not gonna shrug my shoulders and tell them "Sorry, not my line". If I know for sure, I'm going to give them information to make the right call.

M&M, I too have been to NCAA-W camps and you are correct in saying that they want the correct call, but I truly believe Marcy Weston & Mary Struckhoff (sp)and collegiate supervisors would have a fit if the lead made this call from 40+ feet. I would think that some officials would be fired on the spot or definitely fined a game check if this were to happen in a college game. I would agree that they would say that the correct call was made but Stevie Wonder should have been able to see this foul from the nose bleed section of the arena.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by JRutledge
What part of the state do you live? I am mostly talking about the West Central part of the state because that is where I started. So areas like Peoria and Springfield are in that area. Those areas have pretty much left 2 Person behind. Also the schools usually hire (mostly Class A schools) officials to work both games when they have a 3 Person crew. So just from a financial position they save money when they hire 3 officials for the night rather than 5 officials.

I'm in east central IL. For the most part, all the Class AA schools are 3-person for varsity, and 2-person below that level. A lot of the Class A schools hire 3, but there are a few that still grumble about it. The ones that hire 2 are Class A. As far as saving money, I'm not sure that's always the case. When I work both games, 3-person, I'm usually paid from $70 - 85. That would be a total outlay for the school of between $240 - 255/game. When I work just the varsity game, the pay is between $50 - 60. So if the 2 JV refs get $35, and the 3 varsity refs get $55, that's a total outlay of $235 for the game, essentially the same. I think the main reason schools hire one crew is the AD makes less phone calls hiring 3 officials rather than 5.

[tomegun]

For what it's worth, I asked my good friend if he would make a call in this situation. He is one of the best officials I know that isn't in the NBA and he has worked everything up to D1 and the CBA. He said he would only make this call if it was a non-basketball play (punch or the like). I know it doesn't matter to most because Nevada could be the only one that knows this official, but that is good enough for me!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by tomegun
For what it's worth, I asked my good friend if he would make a call in this situation. He is one of the best officials I know that isn't in the NBA and he has worked everything up to D1 and the CBA. He said he would only make this call if it was a non-basketball play (punch or the like). I know it doesn't matter to most because Nevada could be the only one that knows this official, but that is good enough for me!

I would take his advice or word over many people here. I do not even know the man.

Peace

[dhodges007]

Who is the "man"?

[jbduke]

Wow. This thread gained and lost steam in about 24-36 hours if I recall. Then my life got crazy and am away for a few days, and this thread explodes. Sorry I've not been around to clarify the location of the other seven players.

Two players were below the arc in the FC, on the slot's side. The lead was in a closed-down position on the baseline and obviously took a look up-court. Reasonable people can disagree over whether the look was a good idea, but the two players in his neighborhood were no near enough each other to mandate the microscope treatment.

I'm posting this with a couple pages still to catch up on, for whatever that's worth.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by jbduke
Wow. This thread gained and lost steam in about 24-36 hours if I recall. Then my life got crazy and am away for a few days, and this thread explodes. Sorry I've not been around to clarify the location of the other seven players.

Two players were below the arc in the FC, on the slot's side. The lead was in a closed-down position on the baseline and obviously took a look up-court. Reasonable people can disagree over whether the look was a good idea, but the two players in his neighborhood were no near enough each other to mandate the microscope treatment.

I'm posting this with a couple pages still to catch up on, for whatever that's worth.

You only accounted for 2 of the seven players and you didn't even mention if those two players were teammates or opponents.