Horn / Whack / Indirect?

[Larks]

This one got sent via e-mail today. Not my sitch but it's interesting:

A Technical Foul occurs on a player at the end of the second period. We begin the third quarter with two shots for the opposing team and they also retain possession to begin the quarter. The arrow stays the same way as it was going and the foul counts as a personal foul and a team foul in the second half. This also counts as an indirect technical to the coach with loss of box privileges.

Is this correct?

My take is this is all 3rd Q business if the 2nd qtr ended. My question is: Is this for sure indirect on the coach? I can see that if it's a known bench personnel but if it's a known player?

Example....A1 shoots...B1 fouls....no call..HORN..ball hits floor...couple seconds later....A1 "You suck"

[Jurassic Referee]

All players become bench personnel during intermissions. Case book play 10.4.1SitB. Half-time and the time between quarters are all "intermissions" as per R2-12-3&4.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
All players become bench personnel during intermissions. Case book play 10.4.1SitB. Half-time and the time between quarters are all "intermissions" as per R2-12-3&4.

So the T is an indirect on the coach, a team foul to start the third qtr., but not a personal on the player - correct?


WARNING: SIDE NOTE, AND OFF-TOPIC COMMENT!!


I learned a very valuable lesson recently - not everyone uses the term "whack" for T's. I was trying to be nice and "talk a player down" and avoid having to give a T - team only had 5 players, she had just picked up her 4th foul...told her "If you don't stop, you're gonna get whacked"...she went nutso claiming I had threatened to hit her if she didn't calm down. Needless to say, she got T'd anyway, and I will never use those words to a player again...

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by rockyroad

So the T is an indirect on the coach, a team foul to start the third qtr., but not a personal on the player - correct?


WARNING: SIDE NOTE, AND OFF-TOPIC COMMENT!!


I learned a very valuable lesson recently - not everyone uses the term "whack" for T's. I was trying to be nice and "talk a player down" and avoid having to give a T - team only had 5 players, she had just picked up her 4th foul...told her "If you don't stop, you're gonna get whacked"...she went nutso claiming I had threatened to hit her if she didn't calm down. Needless to say, she got T'd anyway, and I will never use those words to a player again...

I do not like to use the words "whack" or "bang". It just doesn't sound appropriate.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally posted by rockyroad

So the T is an indirect on the coach, a team foul to start the third qtr., but not a personal on the player - correct?

Wrong. The T also counts as a personal on the player.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rockyroad
So the T is an indirect on the coach, a team foul to start the third qtr., but not a personal on the player - correct?

It wouldn't be a personal, but in HS, it would count toward the five fouls for disqualification.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

It wouldn't be a personal, but in HS, it would count toward the five fouls for disqualification.

OK, in HS - but not in NCAA, correct? It'a s team foul, but nothing on the "personal"side, right?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

It wouldn't be a personal, but in HS, it would count toward the five fouls for disqualification.

So to the book person, you'd say, "it counts as an individual foul, AND a team foul." And not tell them about the indirect thing, eh? Or should the book person be keeping track of indirects?

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally posted by rainmaker

So to the book person, you'd say, "it counts as an individual foul, AND a team foul." And not tell them about the indirect thing, eh? Or should the book person be keeping track of indirects?

The official scorekeeper should be keeping track of indirect Ts on the head coach in the book. Most score books that I have seen have a spot in them for coaches Ts to be recorded, and have spots for both Direct and Indirect.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by rockyroad
"If you don't stop, you're gonna get whacked"...she went nutso claiming I had threatened to hit her....

She might've thought you were one of the sopranos.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by rockyroad

OK, in HS - but not in NCAA, correct? It'a s team foul, but nothing on the "personal"side, right?

It would depend on what the T was for. If it was an unsporting T (cursing out the ref), then it does count toward the 5 for DQ. If, for example, it's dunking during the intermission, then it is an indirect T, and does not count as one of the 5 for DQ.

[26 Year Gap]

Reminds me of my first game after 26 years off. I go to report a foul..."White. 23. With a hack." I was advised at halftime that "Hack" was not a game time term that should be used. So it is with the term "whack". Okay in pre-game. Okay in post-game. Even okay at association meeting or referee class. But not during the game.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
The official scorekeeper should be keeping track of indirect Ts on the head coach in the book. Most score books that I have seen have a spot in them for coaches Ts to be recorded, and have spots for both Direct and Indirect.

I have NEVER seen a book that had a place for indirects.

Yes, the T counts towards the player's 5 and is an indirect for the coach.

[Larks]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
All players become bench personnel during intermissions. Case book play 10.4.1SitB. Half-time and the time between quarters are all "intermissions" as per R2-12-3&4.

TY JR.