Closely guarded? No. Just throw out your arms.

[Forksref]

I've had a friend in the stands use a laser to measure and mine is actually 6.345 ft. when I start to signal it. My wingspan is 75.018 inches, so I have to make an adjustment on the spread of my arms. It all seems to work out.

[Rick82358]

While it is not the mechanic in Fed it is in NCAA and it does show the coach that you are aware of the situation.
What most people (other than officials) do not understand is what you are looking for for 6'.
the measurement it isn't forehead to forehead of players leaning over like most people think it is toe to toe which makes it look wider than it is.
So I think the mechanic is useful and I use it at all levels - if you do not feel comfortable or your assoc. says don't use then don't.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
It is a NCAA Men's/Women's mechanic that tells the coach that the official recognizes the fact that there is not a closely guarded situation. I think it is a stupid mechanic. If I am not visually signaling a closely guarded count then it should be obvious that a closely guarded situation does not exsist.

MTD, Sr.

I agree - it should be obvious - but you have to realize that we're communicating with coaches, players, fans, the media, etc.

[refnrev]

Yes, it is an unoffical signal in Fed, but it's common in college and the coaches and fans are used to seeing it. I cetainly don't use it all of the time, but I do use it sometimes because it can be helpful and can alleviate misuderstanding.

[Stat-Man]

Originally posted by Larks
I use it sometimes. Depends on the situation. And, my 6' is more like 4 and a half.

Seeing that's not the letter or the spirit of the NFHS rule, I certinaly wouldn't be happy if I was a coach and this shorter distance was obvious (such as by the mid court or free throw circles). It would also likely garner a lower officials rating, also.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Stat-Man

Seeing that's not the letter or the spirit of the NFHS rule, I certinaly wouldn't be happy if I was a coach and this shorter distance was obvious (such as by the mid court or free throw circles). It would also likely garner a lower officials rating, also.

Why doesn't it meet the spirit and intent of the closely-guarded rule? Do you really believe that a defender passively standing 6 feet away from a dribbler and making absolutely no attempt to play any kinda real defense is closely-guarding anything?

Six feet might meet the letter of the rule, but it's debatable whether it really meets the spirit and intent of the closely-guarded rule.

I also think that an official calling the 6' distance by rote on a passive defender is gonna get a much lower rating from an evaluator than the official who's calling it more according to the intensity of the defense being played. To use one on the modern buzz words, imo it's a game interruptor to call it the way that you're suggesting.

And who cares what coaches think anyway? We don't call games to please coaches- that's impossible to do anyway. As long as this play is called consistently and the same at both ends, coaches have got no b!tch at all imo.

[johnny1784]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
You're right it actually takes TWO yardsticks. Officials should be required to carry them during the game.

LOL!

May we have permission to add your creative remark to our own repertoire of come backs?

And it's not about the inches... it's all about the feet!

[johnny1784]

Originally posted by Stat-Man

Seeing that's not the letter or the spirit of the NFHS rule, I certinaly wouldn't be happy if I was a coach and this shorter distance was obvious (such as by the mid court or free throw circles). It would also likely garner a lower officials rating, also.

IMO, the intent has 2 parts... 6 feet or less and defending a player. It should not be called if both criteriaÂ’s are not met.

But I think the main problem is when officials use that arms extended mechanic that is not listed officially by the NFHS.

Some even use the "fingers-to-hand-slap" indicating a ball was blocked. Now that mechanic might be useful when during a dead ball words wonÂ’t be heard to communicate to an irate coach.

[johnny1784]

Originally posted by Rick82358
While it is not the mechanic in Fed it is in NCAA and it does show the coach that you are aware of the situation.
What most people (other than officials) do not understand is what you are looking for for 6'.
the measurement it isn't forehead to forehead of players leaning over like most people think it is toe to toe which makes it look wider than it is.
So I think the mechanic is useful and I use it at all levels - if you do not feel comfortable or your assoc. says don't use then don't.

I donÂ’t think it is a useful mechanic. I am not a certified NCAA official, yet there isnÂ’t any need to use a signal that means the same by not using any signal at all to indicate there isnÂ’t any closely guarded situation.

This NCAA signal can confuse usage of a full second time-out. The difference being that one uses an open hand instead of a cup like hand.

By the way... the NCAA signal chart has both the team control and play control fouls using the same men's/women's mechanic.

[Rich]

Originally posted by johnny1784

IMO, the intent has 2 parts... 6 feet or less and defending a player. It should not be called if both criteriaÂ’s are not met.

But I think the main problem is when officials use that arms extended mechanic that is not listed officially by the NFHS.

Some even use the "fingers-to-hand-slap" indicating a ball was blocked. Now that mechanic might be useful when during a dead ball words wonÂ’t be heard to communicate to an irate coach.

Some officials act as if a signal isn't listed in the mechanics manual it has no value. I disagree. Not that I think a "clean block" mechanic on a shot has any value.

Working 3-person, I'm C opposite table. Pass out to the key is deflected by B into the backcourt. T has no clue if the pass hit A's hand or B's hand on the way to the backcourt. He looks at me and I'm giving a tipped ball signal and play continues. No doubt in my mind had I not given this signal that the T would've called a backcourt violation because he told me later he would've.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Why doesn't it meet the spirit and intent of the closely-guarded rule? Do you really believe that a defender passively standing 6 feet away from a dribbler and making absolutely no attempt to play any kinda real defense is closely-guarding anything?

Six feet might meet the letter of the rule, but it's debatable whether it really meets the spirit and intent of the closely-guarded rule.

I also think that an official calling the 6' distance by rote on a passive defender is gonna get a much lower rating from an evaluator than the official who's calling it more according to the intensity of the defense being played. To use one on the modern buzz words, imo it's a game interruptor to call it the way that you're suggesting.

And who cares what coaches think anyway? We don't call games to please coaches- that's impossible to do anyway. As long as this play is called consistently and the same at both ends, coaches have got no b!tch at all imo.

Who said anything about a passive defender?

If there is a defender in a guarding stance within 6', the count should be on. We should not wait until 4.5'.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

I agree - it should be obvious - but you have to realize that we're communicating with coaches, players, fans, the media, etc.

Mark:

Unlike my post in the Inadvertant Timeout thread, I hope that this post was not circumlocutory.


MTD, Sr.

[Cager ref 1989]

Wow! If there are many more comments on this thread we're gonna need to petition NFHS to include this topic on next seasons 'Points of Emphasis'.
My main point was that in my judgement the defender (2 feet on floor facing opponent) is WELL within 6 ft on MANY occasions when the official is observed holding both arms out to side as if the defender must be within 2, maybe 3 ft before a 5 sec. count will begin...
To me...it's just elementary being able to judge whether there is good defense and will we as officials recognize that and give him/her a count.
Most HS players are, on avg., 6 ft tall.
If a HS player is standing at a distance that once lying flat on floor would be touching their opponent, BEGIN THE COUNT, they are close enough. What are we waiting on?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
[/B]

Who said anything about a passive defender?

[/B][/QUOTE]I did.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Cager ref 1989
Most HS players are, on avg., 6 ft tall.
If a HS player is standing at a distance that once lying flat on floor would be touching their opponent, BEGIN THE COUNT, they are close enough. What are we waiting on?

This is how I judge it, although I adjust for whether the player is taller or shorter than 6 feet. I've also heard that it can be guestimated by whether both sets of hands reaching straight out to each other would touch. I simply can't visualize the radius of the free throw circle.