New and Different Clock Question

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

And what is going to happen when the point guard briefly glances at the clock and thinks he has 3 seconds left to make a play only to have you blow the whistle and declare the game over?

What's going to happen is the game is over & we're heading to the locker room.

[icallfouls]

It is not taking the game away from the kids. It is likely that the result would be overtime once the clock is reset to :01 (in this instance). Let the KIDS decide it in OT.

Giving the offense a "do-over" is taking the game away from the defense.

I can tell you that when you explain to the coaches what is happening they will better understand the table messed up than your giving a team a second chance. I don't believe an assignor can defend their officials in this situation because the officials had knowledge that the clock did not start properly. We are not authorized to set aside rules.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by deecee

If this were me -- id put back on the 3 seconds since with less that 5 seconds Iwouldnt have ANY counts since it wont matter so I wont be counting anything -- i would be focused on the last shot depending on my position and lookingn for contact and release point and horn.

Under 10 seconds I dont count back court 10 count -- and under 6 seconds I dont count closely guarded. There are much more important things IMO to be focusing on with under 3 seconds than any count (all of which are irrelevant -- I mean who is going to call the 3 second violation here?).

[Edited by deecee on Dec 22nd, 2005 at 03:00 PM]

This scenario is why I always have a count - especially when the clock is under 30 seconds. It's helped on more than one occasion.

As to the 3-second question, if I had been calling 3 seconds consistently all game, I'd call it here.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

And what is going to happen when the point guard briefly glances at the clock and thinks he has 3 seconds left to make a play only to have you blow the whistle and declare the game over?

If he's worth his salt as a point guard, he'll know that there were 3 seconds on the clock when the ball was inbounded, and not think that there are three seconds left.

There are 3 seconds left in the game whether the clock properly shows them or not. If I get to a 3 count, I'm blowing the play dead.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Dan_ref


No way are the officials authorized to declare a do-over.

I vote for keeping the count and ending the game when your count gets to 3.

Agreed, Dan.

Originally posted by deecee
with this little time you dont want to stop with 1 second left and have the offensive team re-inbound the ball -- what if coach just called a timeout to draw a play -- he wasted the timeout -- either give all 3 seconds back and let them redo or just count down the time and blow your whistle when the game ends and you can explain that to both coaches and that would be much more fair than having the team with the ball being screwed out of 2 seconds --

if you have definitive knowledge just do the last 3 seconds in your head -- if you dont then redo the 3 seconds -- its not like there is 40 seconds on the clock and you stop at 38 -- team still has a few seconds to get in a good inbounds play that could take 2-3 seconds to develop.

If this were me -- id put back on the 3 seconds since with less that 5 seconds Iwouldnt have ANY counts since it wont matter so I wont be counting anything -- i would be focused on the last shot depending on my position and lookingn for contact and release point and horn.

Under 10 seconds I dont count back court 10 count -- and under 6 seconds I dont count closely guarded. There are much more important things IMO to be focusing on with under 3 seconds than any count (all of which are irrelevant -- I mean who is going to call the 3 second violation here?).

Arrrrrrggggggghhhhhh!!!! I certainly hope that you are a teenager and that you still have plenty of time mature and learn the proper methods of officiating.

Almost everything you advocate is incorrect. You do at least grasp that stopping play and making the team with the ball execute another throw-in with a mere one second on the clock is putting them at a serious disadvantage. There may be hope for you.

First please go read 5.10.2 and tell me how you are going to handle that situation since you purposely weren't counting? That play ruling instructs the official to take time off the clock for the action prior to the foul by using his count! Your count is a piece of official information and has a purpose, even though you don't realize it yet, even with only a few seconds remaining in the game. You need a back-up to the official timepiece! Don't hose yourself by failing to count. You never know when it will save you. 5-10-2 clearly states that an official's count can be used as definite knowledge to correct a timer's error. What other forms of definite knowledge can you think of? Seeing the clock isn't going to help here since it isn't running. Perhaps are you working at a level where a TV monitor is used in your games?

Secondly, the official's count that is referred to in 5-10-2 is the visible count listed in 2-7-9 as one of the officials duties. You advise to count in your head. Nope, no way! If you ever have a clock problem near the end of the game and have to adjust the clock, you better believe that someone is going to produce a video tape of the contest. When you are questioned on how you knew what to set the clock to, telling them you used your count isn't going to fly when they have you on video not showing a visible count. You definitely want that arm swing on tape!

Lastly, and most importantly, there is no concrete rules basis whatsoever for replaying any part of a game, even just the last few seconds. The only authority that you could claim would be 2-3 and that is pretty weak.
What you do have are specific rules governing the correcting of the clock. Hard to say that this isn't covered and use 2-3 when you have 5-10!

There are some officials, even on this forum, who will advocate redos. I am definitely not one of them.

I'm sure that you can speak with those guys from the '72 Olympics for pointers though.

[Kelvin green]

I agree with the make the count and blow the whistle. Everyone knows there was three seconds. No replays! no redos! no stop the clock! Time runs out and you killed the game, thats what we get paid the big bucks for.

Wont it be nice when we all go to Precision time and then we start the clock!

[Ref Daddy]

How does the rule book phrase " ... consumed time and additional activity, which may occur prior to the recognition of an error, shall not be nullified." come in here?

10-5

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Ref Daddy

How does the rule book phrase " ... consumed time and additional activity, which may occur prior to the recognition of an error, shall not be nullified." come in here?

10-5

I assume you mean 2-10-5 ...

in which case it doesn't come into play, since this isn't a correctable error

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
I agree with the make the count and blow the whistle. Everyone knows there was three seconds. No replays! no redos! no stop the clock! Time runs out and you killed the game, thats what we get paid the big bucks for.

Wont it be nice when we all go to Precision time and then we start the clock!

PT doesn't work correctly 100% of the time.

Also, given the clock skills of some officials that I've seen, this may or may not be an improvement.

[fonzzy07]

You have to keep the count yourself and if your sure end the game. Ir hurts both teams if you redo the play, The offense because now their inbounds play esp if they took a time out is wasted. and the defense they have to stop these guys 2wice now, ur the official u end it, Never heard of unmerited redos in basketball

[Kelvin green]

Originally posted by orangeump
why have a five second count with three seconds left? This shows the fans that you are ignorant and are counting something that cannot be called.

have you worked enough games in your life to know what three seconds feels like? or even this two that you explain feels like? if you have this count and all of this action in front of you, how on earth are you staring at the clock anyway?

Its not what three seconds feels like. Its exact knowledge. There is nothing wrong in this situation by inbounding ball and having a count. It wont be a five second count but you can have a visible count. If you have a count here you then blow it dead and you are done. if you guess or think it was the guess is not right...

[Forksref]

I had a situation many years ago similar to this. Home team up by 1. Clock is stopped. Three seconds left in the 4th qtr. and ball inbounded. Passed in below the FT line, ball is dribbled all the way to the other FT line and then passed to the baseline. I am expecting the horn as the ball was dribbled near the half court line (my unofficial clock in my head told me that 3 seconds had expired). Upon hearing no horn and the play continues, I sound my whistle and signal the game is over. The home timer just about screwed his own team by not starting the clock. I had no view of the clock from my vantage point and I wasn't going to take my eyes off the ball at this time.