Worked a boys hs varsity game last night 3 person crew good game no problems team A was up by 15 w/ 5:00 minutes left in game my partner called a shooting foul on team A players were lining up for the free throws when 2 players on team B's bench started brawling the fight spilled onto the court the coaches & players broke up the fight. I don't have my rule book w/ me what is the actual definition of fighting does it include players on the same team?

SECTION 18 FIGHTING
Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live. Fighting includes, but is not limited to combative acts such as:
ART. 1 . . . An attempt to strike, punch or kick an opponent with a fist, hands, arms, legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made.
ART. 2 . . . An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsporting act toward an opponent that causes an opponent to retaliate by fighting.

So the rule doesn't cover a fight between players on the same team. How should this be penalized w/ unsportsmanlike T ?

I would think the coach's penalty for these players will be more severe that what you are going to give them. I would have ejected the two players, shot the free throws, and moved on with the game.

Leave it alone and let the coach deal with his players. Now, if they cussing for the whole gym to hear, that's different.

It's probably not a good idea to start taking bets amongst the refs on who will win this fight. ;)

Thats what we did we let the coach deal w/ it & filed report w/ our assignor

you know, I had something less severe than a fight. Heard a kid say to his teammate "Get your head in the f**'in game". I was L at the time and the kids were maybe 4 ft apart - so no one in the stands or on the bench heard it. Normally I have a pretty short leash on vulgarity - but it caught me off guard btwn teammates. After I paused the game had noved on - so I let it go.

Anyone out there T a kid for cussing at at teammate?

In 14 years I have never called a T on anything said between teammates Its odd that by the rule 2 teammates can beat the crap out of each other & thats OK

Why do you keep saying it's OK by rule?

SECTION 18 FIGHTING
Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live. Fighting includes, but is not limited to combative acts such as:

I did once, in a situation similar to yours, but different in volume. Half the gym heard him, so I branded him (new euphemism drawn from a literary foray -- cute, huh?).

"Vulgar conduct" is a foul.

I respect those that allow it towards team-mates but disagree. 2004 POE says :

<i> Inappropriate language. The committee is concerned about the use of inappropriate language by players, bench personnel, coaches, officials and spectators. Each group has a responsibility to the game and to each other to demonstrate civility and citizenship.</I>

Determining who the target of the vulgar comments truly was is impossible. as well it sets the perfect excuse - "I wasn't talking to the other team."

Anyone out there T a kid for cussing at at teammate? [/B][/QUOTE]
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No, but I've given cards and sent them off in soccer for it.

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No, but I've given cards and sent them off in soccer for it. [/B][/QUOTE]

What is this "soccer" you speak of? And are these Hallmark cards or are they of the St Louis variety?

Two flagrant's, toss them both and shoot 4 free throws and A Team gets the ball back at the division line.

NCAA interp
 

Here's my JuCo conference's interp concerning fighting between teammates (excerpted from one of our quizzes):

Teammates A1 and A-2 are arguing on their way to their bench after the TO is granted. A1 verbally abuses A2 and both grab each other and fall to the floor. Make a call. What do you call?

You are right if you review the current 2006-07 Rule Book and conclude that there is a contradiction in Rule 4-23 and Rule 10-17. The contradiction has been dully noted by Ed Bilik, NCAA, for a change in next year's Rule Book. In Rule 10-17.a .b .c, replace the word ‘opponent’ with the word ‘individual’ and that will eliminate the contradiction. As mentioned at the clinics, Rule 4-23 was a rewrite and inadvertently the change was not made in Rule 10-17. The intent of the rewrite of 4-23 was to clarify fighting and cover the situation described above since it is becoming a prevalent occurrence. At minimum direct technical fouls can be assessed to the Team A players, however, Rule 4-23 is the dominate rule and you are correct to charge both players with flagrant technical fouls and eject them for fighting.

Leave it alone? The fight spilled out onto the court and disrupted the game. That's just ridiculous imo, Chris. Cussing is bad but fighting is OK? This isn't the WWE we're talking about here; it's high school basketball. Throw both of the little sh!ts out. If a fight isn't "unsporting conduct", then I don't know whatintheheck is.:rolleyes:

Geeze, even if you don't feel like calling it a "fight", they're both still on their feet in the bench area. That's a "T" under 10-4-4. Then they both came out onto the court too. That's another "T" under 10-4-2. What's your rationale for leaving those alone?

Just my 2 cents but if it spilled out onto the court I would have T'ed. If the coaches could have controlled it and it did not interfere with the game I let it go, but since it sounds like it interfeared with the game I would deal with it. New question though. I'm thinking I would have to T up both players. If you were to penelize is this what you would do?

In 4-19-4 it states fighting is a flagrant act. It doesn't say who is envolved, plainly states it's flagrant. Easy enough. I certainly wouldn't ignore it.

Dan's right. This IS a fight and subject to the rules governing them.

if they are on the bench and you T them up, do we then have issues with the coach sticking around?

no rule book so unable to answer my own question right now

sorry, should have said, if they are on the bench and you give them both flagrants and toss them, does that affect the coach and his ability to stick around

My bet is a girl is involved and she should be ejected too.....or maybe not....I did get a big laugh out of this one...you never know what is going to happen at a basketball game.....

Technicals on bench personnel are charged indirectly to the head coach so the head coach would receive 2 indirect T's of the 3 indirect T's required to disqualify him.

Actually, if he gets a Direct T after receiving 2 Indirects, he's gone too. Don't have my books on me, but I believe it says something to the effect of 2 direct or 3 total to eject the coach.

Since there is no contact with an opponent. I would point to the following two rules and assess each player with flagrant unsporting technical fouls.

4-19-4 . . . A flagrant foul may be a personal or technical foul of a violent or savage nature, or a technical noncontact foul which displays unacceptable conduct. It may or may not be intentional. If personal, it involves, but is not limited to violent contact such as: striking, kicking and kneeing. If technical, it involves dead-ball contact or noncontact at any time which is extreme or persistent, vulgar or abusive conduct. Fighting is a flagrant act.

4-19-14 . . . An unsporting foul is a noncontact technical foul which consists of unfair, unethical, dishonorable conduct or any behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.