Hey, ref, this isn't football....

[zebraman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JRutledge

I already realized that. I just find it funny how sensitive people get when we start talking about how bad girl's basketball is. I was just surprised that no one got a conniption with the conversations.
Peace

I think most officials on this board (you are an exception) are smart enough to see the difference between someone venting about a sloppy game and someone (you) who constantly rants about girls basketball to hide their oedipus complex and fragile masculinity.

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by JRutledge


I already realized that. I just find it funny how sensitive people get when we start talking about how bad girl's basketball is. I was just surprised that no one got a conniption with the conversations.

Jeff -- I'm the one that usually starts having conniptions when girls' basketball is being "put down". I haven't done it yet, because I was out being a ref, and didn't see this thread until now. Rich was talking about a specific game, and there's no offense there. Good grief, we all see terrible girls' games just like we all see terrible boys' games.

Tomegun seems to be into rash generalizations these days, so his post:

Originally posted by tomegun


IMO, girls think they are entitled to reach for the ball no matter where it is and who has it. Add to that the fact that the girl with the ball doesn't know how to protect the ball and you have a lot of jump balls and fouls.

doesn't mean much. Other posts in this trhead have been about foul count and listening to coaches. Nothing much to react to.

I do think that Zebraman overstates the case by saying that you are talking stupid. You were merely making an observation that there hasn't been the usual rant about girls' basketball.

When I read a post like Rich's, or about the kinds of girls' ball you do, I just feel sorry for you-all. We are fortunate here in Portland to have some very, very good girls' teams, and we see a lot of very good ball. We also have some very lousy boys' teams. SO the gradient isn't as steep here between boys' ball and girls' ball. Pity for you isn't prompting a rant from me anymore.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman


I think most officials on this board (you are an exception) are smart enough to see the difference between someone venting about a sloppy game and someone (you) who constantly rants about girls basketball to hide their oedipus complex and fragile masculinity.

Z

This is a true story.

Last season I asked my girlfriend to come with me to a game to watch during the playoffs. I wanted to watch one of my friends work his regional championship game. I did not tell her what kind of game we were attending, I just asked her to come to the game with me. When we got there and she noticed we were at a girl's playoff game, she got upset with me and starting making jokes like "if you told me we were coming to a girls game I would have stayed home." I was there to just watch the officials, not the game. She was upset because she thought we were going to a Boy's games. Now my girlfriend (of about 6 years) played sports in HS and played basketball as well. She did not want to be there.

Now you can say I am the exception, but the reality is I live in an area where "most officials" have to choose or they will not work (as you move up). You are not going to work both Men's and Women's college basketball. You are not going to work the best Boy's Basketball by working both. I will be working next week one of the largest Boy's and Girl's HS Christmas Tournaments in the country. Guess what, the assignors or tournament committee will not let officials work both boy's and girl's basketball. As a matter of fact, the girl's officials are working both Class A and AA games. The Boy's officials are split into a Class A staff and a Class AA Staff (which is another dynamic in our state). I am working the Class AA games and will not work anything but Class AA Boy's basketball. I did not ask when about what I would be doing when I accepted this tournament or really care. I guess it is just me that feels this way or thinks there is a difference in the game. It is so obvious that I am the only one considering that a major tournament will not allow officials to work both in their big time tournament. Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!

Peace

[zebraman]

LOL. Now you are making excuses for why you went to watch a girls game. Freud will have a field day with you. It's OK Rut, you can put the dress and high heels on. None of us care.

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by zebraman
LOL. Now you are making excuses for why you went to watch a girls game. Freud will have a field day with you. It's OK Rut, you can put the dress and high heels on. None of us care.

Z

C'mon Z, leave the guy alone. Even Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar." It's possible and permissible for Rut to dislike girls' basketball without him being psychologically weird. Besides, an awful lot of Freud has been discredited in the last 100 years or so. Let him keep his boys games and his opinions. No need to be offended.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by rainmaker
I do think that Zebraman overstates the case by saying that you are talking stupid. You were merely making an observation that there hasn't been the usual rant about girls' basketball.

That is just Z not confident in what he does. That is just the way he is always going to be.

Originally posted by rainmaker
When I read a post like Rich's, or about the kinds of girls' ball you do, I just feel sorry for you-all. We are fortunate here in Portland to have some very, very good girls' teams, and we see a lot of very good ball. We also have some very lousy boys' teams. SO the gradient isn't as steep here between boys' ball and girls' ball. Pity for you isn't prompting a rant from me anymore.

Who said we did not have very good girl's basketball? Juulie, one of the best players in the country and the only girl to win a certain national award for Player of the Year came 15 minutes from where I live. That also does not include the many Final Fours with players from this area. The issue is not whether it there are good teams, the issue is (at least for me) what typically happens in a girl's game as compared to a boy's game. Let us face it, when I call a girls game and the play is sloppy, hardly anyone is complaining about the amount of contact in the game. They might want a foul in some cases, but it is not a very common complaint. When I have worked a girl's game, for some reason every little time a player tries to dribble between two defenders that are just standing there, you would think someone shot the girl with a gun by the reaction of the fans and many coaches. That same play in a boy's game would get a response not favorable to the dribbler. Not matter how you feel about it; it seems to me that slight contact is expected to be called a foul in the girl's games while more contact is expected in a boy's game. I worked in a varsity boy's game with an officials recently that works more girl's games in his career and he called a bunch of fouls one the defenders just making blocks. Many of these fouls no one was knocked down or hit the floor, but he called a few fouls on players where one was about 6'8 and the other player was 6'10 (someone said 7'0, but I did not think so) and every block attempt in one part of the game or in this official's area we had a whistle. When the same thing took place where I was working and my other partner, no foul called (the other official was a State Final official).

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

C'mon Z, leave the guy alone. Even Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar."

Yeah but he had to take a huge unlit cigar out of his mouth to say it.

Anyway...carry on, very entertaining...

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman
LOL. Now you are making excuses for why you went to watch a girls game. Freud will have a field day with you. It's OK Rut, you can put the dress and high heels on. None of us care.

Z

You seemed to care. Because when I tell you there is a difference where I live you get offended. I will tell you this, most officials that work Boy's playoffs, never get asked to work Girl's playoffs and vice versa. Also if you want to work Girl's playoffs and you try to get off a Boy's varsity game, those officials might find themselves not working in those Boy's conferences anymore. That is not what I say, that is what the assignors say and have done. (Girl's playoffs start at different times in our state. Each gender and class has their own State Finals weekend as well in this order, Girl's Class A; Girl's Class AA; Boy's Class A; Boy Class AA)

Peace

[Blind & lovin' it]

/B][/QUOTE]

C'mon Z, leave the guy alone. Even Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar, is just a cigar." It's possible and permissible for Rut to dislike girls' basketball without him being psychologically weird. Besides, an awful lot of Freud has been discredited in the last 100 years or so. Let him keep his boys games and his opinions. No need to be offended. [/B][/QUOTE]

Are you sure that was Freud? I thought that was Clinton?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Blind & lovin' it
For the sake of conversation, what is the record on the big board? Anybody have a +50 foul game recently?

Last night recent enough for ya? Both teams in the double bonus both halves. Visitors had at least 15 in both halves. Visitors also won by about 40.

Originally posted by Frank
One perception I have is that in a boy's game, when a player gets a defensive rebound, the other nine run to the other end of the court. In a girl's game, it's a signal to attack the rebounder.

Unfortunately, the visitors in my game last night used Frank's perception of the girls. Only problem was my game was boys.

[tomegun]

Rainmaker, I gave my opinion. I would be willing to wager that what I said is right in the majority of high school girls games in the US. Not at all games, but most. Can you explain another reason for many officials from all parts of the country to have waaaaaay more held balls in a girls games than they do a boys game? If you can answer that, have at it and I will learn something new tonight. Otherwise, that is your second poke at me today. Either I need to go to sleep or you need to stop poking me for today.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by tomegun
Either I need to go to sleep or you need to stop poking me for today.

I'd settle for both.

[tomegun]

I will look past that.

Ironically, I just got a call from the high school assigner. we do both boys and girls here. I had a girls game tomorrow night; I couldn't tell by my schedule because the assigner doesn't mark the difference. I do know I was going to get home earlier because of a earlier start time. Anyway, he moved me from that game to a sold out Catholic league boys game. I guess I got demoted.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by tomegun
I will look past that.

Ironically, I just got a call from the high school assigner. we do both boys and girls here. I had a girls game tomorrow night; I couldn't tell by my schedule because the assigner doesn't mark the difference. I do know I was going to get home earlier because of a earlier start time. Anyway, he moved me from that game to a sold out Catholic league boys game. I guess I got demoted.

Well, it's hard to tell from here whether it's a demotion or a promotion. Also, you didn't say what the level of play of the two games is. I hope you enjoy your sold out Catholic league boys' game. Sounds like fun. I hope that makes up for the girls' game you'll be missing.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Well, it's hard to tell from here whether it's a demotion or a promotion. Also, you didn't say what the level of play of the two games is. I hope you enjoy your sold out Catholic league boys' game. Sounds like fun. I hope that makes up for the girls' game you'll be missing.

Oh, some would say I'm arrogant, or could be mistaken for an "arrogant little sh!t." I'm a basketball junky pure and simple. I state my feelings and if it doesn't jive with the warm and fuzzy feelings, I have a tail and horns. In the last couple of weeks I've done: military intramurals (the worst ball in the world), over-50 rec, JH (boys and girls), JUCO, high school boys (Varsity), military base-level, D2. I would have done the girls game I had and tried to have the perfect game! That isn't a resume, that is an official who loves the game! The only reason why I don't play over-30 is I can't stand losing when we don't play the right way. I don't think that fits the criteria for an arrogant official and I don't think I would do all of that if I was constantly making sweeping generalizations about others.