Hey, ref, this isn't football....

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Blind & lovin' it

For the sake of conversation, what is the record on the big board? Anybody have a +50 foul game recently?

I've had three games this year, 1 boys, 2 girls varsity, where we were in double bonus, both teams, both halves so we probably got close to 50.

I've also had two games, 1 boys, 1 girls, where we did not shoot a 1 and 1 the entire game.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally posted by Blind & lovin' it
Games get easier to call as the level increases. I had to laugh working with a guy last month who did mostly 4A HS games - he was nervewrecked by halftime during our 5th-6th grade girls AAU-type game.

My worst game of the 2005 (and that I can remember being a part of ever) so far was a frosh boys game two weeks ago. 41 fouls (23 on white, 18 on red) - and the fans said we were letting them get away with murder. At least both coaches were sympathetic - I guess they knew what they had.

It's amazing how we can feel we have a game under control and the perception of the fans can be completely different. After a game a couple of weeks ago, I spoke to a woman in my office who was at half of a game I had worked where we called 46 total fouls (Her husband coaches another school in the conference and they were scouting). At the end of the 1st Quarter, team fouls were 9-9. We as the officials thought we had a pretty good handle on things. We weren't hearing squat from the coaches. And yet, when I talked to this lady on Monday morning, she thought we were letting one team get away with way too much.

On that same note, one of the teams involved in this game has now played 3 games this year, with total foul counts of 44, 46 and 46. I've worked 2 of those 3 games, and in neither of them did we feel like we had lost control of the game.

[icallfouls]

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes

It's amazing how we can feel we have a game under control and the perception of the fans can be completely different. After a game a couple of weeks ago, I spoke to a woman in my office who was at half of a game I had worked where we called 46 total fouls (Her husband coaches another school in the conference and they were scouting). At the end of the 1st Quarter, team fouls were 9-9. We as the officials thought we had a pretty good handle on things. We weren't hearing squat from the coaches. And yet, when I talked to this lady on Monday morning, she thought we were letting one team get away with way too much.

On that same note, one of the teams involved in this game has now played 3 games this year, with total foul counts of 44, 46 and 46. I've worked 2 of those 3 games, and in neither of them did we feel like we had lost control of the game.

Since when does not hearing from coaches mean anything? How often do people on this forum state that coaches don't know anything about officiating? We all bash on coaches for what we hear them say. So how can they be so brilliant now that they haven't said "squat" during your game?

Its hard to lose control of a 32 minute game when 46 fouls are called. Now add to this however many violations were called, call it 10, but it is likely that it was actually less, plus any OOB calls. It sounds more like there was too much control being exerted. Did either team break a sweat?

What was the foul count for each team? If the foul calls went mostly against one team, maybe the lady in your office is correct. Ticky-tack calls at one end, obvious calls at the other would also serve as validation to a fan that one team is getting away with more than the other.

[Edited by icallfouls on Dec 20th, 2005 at 07:39 PM]

[WhistlesAndStripes]

I'm not saying that silence on the part of coaches means a whole lot, but often in a game where so many fouls are called, either they think you're calling it too tight and let ya know, or, as you imply, one team may thing they're gettin railroaded while the other one is getting away with ticky tack $hit we're calling the other way. I seem to recall that the final foul count was 24-22, so overall, it was evenly called. But I felt that we were able to let the kids play through some of the crap, while getting what we needed to.

[Rich]

A followup:

Our first foul tonight was with 6:51 left in the first HALF. The first whistle of the game (after the opening jump) was 3 minutes in for a 30-second timeout.

The second half it all fell apart. Close game, lots of aggressive play, but again, mostly aggressive play that didn't result in advantage/disadvantage.

Naturally, we went overtime, won by the visitors by 3 points. Home team had a three at the end to tie, but it ended up being an airball

Main things I'll remember from tonight? Well, I personally called 1 foul the entire first half (my partner called the other six, and they were all good fouls). Mine was a good foul, too.

But I can't remember the last time I had both coaches whine as much. Home coach wanted "over the back" fouls called on the visiting center who never got within a foot of the home players -- she was just 6 inches taller and got the rebounds while the home players neglected to get position and box out.

Partner gave an explanation of something in passing to the home coach and we put the ball in play and partner immediately calls a PC foul on the guard who threw out an arm. Visiting coach asked me if partner called that because the other coach was complaining.

And on and on.

But it could be worse. Started at 7:35PM, went overtime and still was off the court by 9 and showered, dressed, and in the car by 9:20 for the 86 mile drive home. $55 game fee, partner who drove got $30 travel money. But we all do this for the money, right?

Boys 3-person Thursday and Friday. I'll be glad when we go 3-person for everything.

[crazy voyager]

talking football, well for me that's soccer. What do you say about the basketball ref that called offside? Yeah I've seen it, had a LONG good laugh about it

[Nevadaref]

Last year I had a game with 58 total fouls. The year before was my record high at 65. Both of those totals are according to the newspaper the next day. I didn't keep track. But those games felt really long.

Amazingly, that same season was also my record low of ONE foul for the whole game! (1A GV)

I'm still kicking myself for calling it too. It was in the 2nd quarter and I didn't have to have it. I messed up our chance.


Has anyone ever called a HS Varsity game without any fouls at all?

[tomegun]

IMO, girls think they are entitled to reach for the ball no matter where it is and who has it. Add to that the fact that the girl with the ball doesn't know how to protect the ball and you have a lot of jump balls and fouls.

[David M]

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes

It's amazing how we can feel we have a game under control and the perception of the fans can be completely different. After a game a couple of weeks ago, I spoke to a woman in my office who was at half of a game I had worked where we called 46 total fouls (Her husband coaches another school in the conference and they were scouting). At the end of the 1st Quarter, team fouls were 9-9. We as the officials thought we had a pretty good handle on things. We weren't hearing squat from the coaches. And yet, when I talked to this lady on Monday morning, she thought we were letting one team get away with way too much.

On that same note, one of the teams involved in this game has now played 3 games this year, with total foul counts of 44, 46 and 46. I've worked 2 of those 3 games, and in neither of them did we feel like we had lost control of the game.

Watched my daughter's JV game last night. First half fouls were 15 to 7 (my daughters team had the 7). Our fans were still yelling at the refs to call it both ways! I was sitting in the stands next to these people saying to myself you have got to be kidding me.

[Rich]

Originally posted by tomegun
IMO, girls think they are entitled to reach for the ball no matter where it is and who has it. Add to that the fact that the girl with the ball doesn't know how to protect the ball and you have a lot of jump balls and fouls.

And of course.....to the fans and coaches EVERY TIME the defender reaches, it should be a foul. Every time there's a bump on the rebound where the player clears it cleanly, it should STILL be a foul.

Last night we had three straight possessions of interest. Player from the home team gets the ball in the frontcourt, dribbles, picks up her dribble, and holds the ball in front of her. First two times defender grabs the ball and we have a held ball. Third time, defender rips the ball away clean and we have a break the other way. Coach wonders why we aren't calling those fouls. Jeez....

OK, I think I got it out of my system now. My next girls game isn't until January 6, and it's at a school with a perenially good girls program. Matter of fact, I think we're taking 3 to work that game.

[JRutledge]

You mean to tell me that we have gotten to two pages in this thread and no one is giving a lecture as to how girl's basketball is not that bad. Or no one has said that you guys are arrogant because you are putting down girl's basketball.

Oh well.

Peace

[Blind & lovin' it]

Originally posted by JRutledge
You mean to tell me that we have gotten to two pages in this thread and no one is giving a lecture as to how girl's basketball is not that bad. Or no one has said that you guys are arrogant because you are putting down girl's basketball.

Oh well.

Peace

Girls basketball is not that bad. You guys are arrogant bacause you are putting down girl's basketball.

Always looking to help those in need over the Christmas season!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Blind & lovin' it


Girls basketball is not that bad. You guys are arrogant bacause you are putting down girl's basketball.

Always looking to help those in need over the Christmas season!

LOL!!!

Peace

[Rich]

Originally posted by JRutledge
You mean to tell me that we have gotten to two pages in this thread and no one is giving a lecture as to how girl's basketball is not that bad. Or no one has said that you guys are arrogant because you are putting down girl's basketball.

Oh well.

Peace

Jeff,

We work boys' games in Illinois (reciprocal license) and the nice thing down there is that there are separate assignors for boys and girls. I've worked basketball in Illinois for 4 years (about 10 games a year, mostly in the Rockford area) and have yet to work a girls' game there.

Here the assignors (commissioners) assign both. Therefore, most people work both.

--Rich

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser


Jeff,

We work boys' games in Illinois (reciprocal license) and the nice thing down there is that there are separate assignors for boys and girls. I've worked basketball in Illinois for 4 years (about 10 games a year, mostly in the Rockford area) and have yet to work a girls' game there.

Here the assignors (commissioners) assign both. Therefore, most people work both.

--Rich

I already realized that. I just find it funny how sensitive people get when we start talking about how bad girl's basketball is. I was just surprised that no one got a conniption with the conversations.

Also some assignors do assign both here. The reality is that many would not dare ask officials to work both. I know many coaches and ADs do not like to see a lot of officials on both sides of the isle. I have said this before and I have taken heat for it. The reality is more Boys’ assignors make you go through huge loopy loops to work in their conferences. There is one Girl's assignor around here that hires a lot of officials without seeing them at camp or requiring officials to be "Certified” as a pre-requisite before they get a varsity game. The Boy's assignors not usually require seeing you during camps, work many years of lower level ball in their conference before you even get a sniff at a bad varsity game.

Peace