Coaching Box Question

Mark Dexter · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 14, 2005, 08:32pm

Had my first real game today (no more intramurals - hurrah!) - a good Jr. High Boys' Varsity game. Visitors won by 2 points, with home team taking a last second shot (it was late and it missed, so no debate there.)

Anyways, I had a technical foul on the visiting coach but (due to my years of reffing IM ball) forgot that loss of the coaching box was part of the penalty. I didn't realize until I looked over about 5 minutes later and thought "hmm - shouldn't he be sitting down after the T?"

I let it go, and didn't have him sit, and now I'm looking for a bit of advice. Would you tell the coach to sit down (even though you had forgotten for several minutes) and, if so, how would you recommend doing it?

WhistlesAndStripes · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 14, 2005, 08:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Had my first real game today (no more intramurals - hurrah!) - a good Jr. High Boys' Varsity game. Visitors won by 2 points, with home team taking a last second shot (it was late and it missed, so no debate there.)

Anyways, I had a technical foul on the visiting coach but (due to my years of reffing IM ball) forgot that loss of the coaching box was part of the penalty. I didn't realize until I looked over about 5 minutes later and thought "hmm - shouldn't he be sitting down after the T?"

I let it go, and didn't have him sit, and now I'm looking for a bit of advice. Would you tell the coach to sit down (even though you had forgotten for several minutes) and, if so, how would you recommend doing it?

I'd probably just mention it to him the next time down the court. Try not to make a scene about it.

Jurassic Referee · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 14, 2005, 08:37pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Anyways, I had a technical foul on the visiting coach but (due to my years of reffing IM ball) forgot that loss of the coaching box was part of the penalty. I didn't realize until I looked over about 5 minutes later and thought "hmm - shouldn't he be sitting down after the T?"

I let it go, and didn't have him sit, and now I'm looking for a bit of advice. Would you tell the coach to sit down (even though you had forgotten for several minutes) and, if so, how would you recommend doing it?

AS soon as I noticed the coach was up wandering, I'd tell him. Wait for a break in the action, go over to him and quietly say "Coach, you lost the right to stand when you got your "T". You'll have to sit during play and stay sitting."

You never know when someone (evaluator) is watching you either, Mark.

Ref Daddy · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 14, 2005, 10:46pm

A rule need not be reminded to be enforceable.

dblref · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 15, 2005, 07:31am

@Mark

Haven't seen you post in a while and wondered where you were. Forgot you had graduated. Are you back in Yankee land or still close by?

Mark Dexter · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 15, 2005, 08:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by dblref
Are you back in Yankee land or still close by?

Never! I'm back in good ol' Red Sox territory, aka Eastern Connecticut. (Teaching and acting as Assistant AD at my alma mater, actually.)

I joined the local IAABO board, and am 8 games into my first "real" season.

Nevadaref · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 16, 2005, 05:07am

Mark,
You never have to remind or inform the coaches and players of the rules. They have a responsibility to know them already. Ignorance is no excuse.
If someone has to learn the hard way once, so be it. He will learn his lesson well.

You would have been fully justified in issuing a second technical foul for the coach standing up after losing the coaching box rights.

dhodges007 · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 16, 2005, 05:33am

Mark,

Don't trouble trouble. I would just tell him next time I am by him, "coach, remember you can't stand after receiving a Technical foul." If your partner does it even better.

A second technical... no way.

truerookie · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 16, 2005, 08:46am

Imo, coaches can remember reaching; over the back (push) traveling etc.etc. They know when they have lost the coaching box no need to remind them. They remind you when things do not go the way as they see it. Second T' no warning.

mick · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 16, 2005, 08:53am

Quote:

Originally posted by truerookie
Imo, coaches can remember reaching; over the back (push) traveling etc.etc. They know when they have lost the coaching box no need to remind them. They remind you when things do not go the way as they see it. Second T' no warning.

truerookie,
As you work more games you will find that it is more pleasant working with the coach than against him when possible.
mick

Jurassic Referee · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 16, 2005, 09:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by truerookie
Imo, coaches can remember reaching; over the back (push) traveling etc.etc. They know when they have lost the coaching box no need to remind them. They remind you when things do not go the way as they see it. Second T' no warning.

And then you gotta write an ejection report up and send it in. And if you don't include it in your ejection report, I can almost guarantee that you will be asked "Did you tell the coach that he had lost the box after the first "T", as you were supposed to, by rule?". Even if you did include that you didn't tell him, you will still be asked why you didn't tell the coach he was seat-belted. Now, what's your answer gonna be to those, Rook?

If the coach gets up and starts wandering after you've told him he lost the box, then, yes, you gotta do something about it. Before that, you're picking a booger that don't really need picking. Jmo, of course.

Nevadaref · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 16, 2005, 09:24am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
"Did you tell the coach that he had lost the box after the first "T", as you were supposed to, by rule?".

JR, did I miss a rule change? Where does it say this?

Jurassic Referee · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 16, 2005, 09:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
"Did you tell the coach that he had lost the box after the first "T", as you were supposed to, by rule?".

JR, did I miss a rule change? Where does it say this?

It's the suggested mechanic then. OK now?

bob jenkins · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 16, 2005, 09:57am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Mark,
You never have to remind or inform the coaches and players of the rules. They have a responsibility to know them already. Ignorance is no excuse.
If someone has to learn the hard way once, so be it. He will learn his lesson well.

You would have been fully justified in issuing a second technical foul for the coach standing up after losing the coaching box rights.

While I think that what Nevadaref wrote is true, it's overly picky, imo, to do this the first time the coach's backside leaves the plastic / wood.

Just like you wouldn't (I assume) issue an immediate T if the coach's foot strays outside the coaching box line.

The second T is a tool you can use if you need to. Don't go looking to use it just because it's available.

That said, different areas enforce this rule with different levels of strictness -- you should try to comply with the accepted standard in your area.

RookieDude · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 16, 2005, 10:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Mark,
You never have to remind or inform the coaches and players of the rules. They have a responsibility to know them already. Ignorance is no excuse.
If someone has to learn the hard way once, so be it. He will learn his lesson well.

You would have been fully justified in issuing a second technical foul for the coach standing up after losing the coaching box rights.

Nevada...I don't mean to be picking on you, as of late,
but...really, IMO you should tone it down just a bit. You're getting a little to anal, IMO, with a couple of your rulings.

Listen to JR and mick...these guys probably know the rules better than anyone here...yet, they also know that game management and rules make for good bedfellows.