I'm on-ball - Page 2

WhistlesAndStripes · #16 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 06, 2005, 08:19pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
But if not, the official who has the primary area should pick up the primary matchup, which is always the ballhander and defender.

Yes, otherwise, why rotate? If your C can handle the ballhandler fine, then let him/her. If you rotate over, then as soon as the rotation is completed, your C gives up the play and rotates to Trail and you have on-ball coverage. I mean, that's exactly why you rotated, isn't it?

Hmmm...gotta disagree with these points. The primary competitive match-up is NOT necessarily the ball-handler and dribbler...it could be...it usually is...but not ALWAYS.

And no, I don't rotate so I can have on-ball coverage. I rotate because the post players went/are going/will be going across...I'm not sure why you would rotate just to get to on-ball coverage. Sure that happens - you rotate and end up picking up the ball right away, but that shouldn't be why you rotate.

Maybe this is just one of those differences between NCAAM and NCAAW mechanics...don't know enough about your side of it to say...

Wait. Stop the presses.

You rotate counter to where the ball is? If the ball's on your side as L but there's a good match up on the opposite block you will rotate?

Seriously, what the heck does the C get payed to do?

I don't think he gets payed at all. I think he gets paid.

Dan_ref · #17 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 06, 2005, 08:29pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
But if not, the official who has the primary area should pick up the primary matchup, which is always the ballhander and defender.

Yes, otherwise, why rotate? If your C can handle the ballhandler fine, then let him/her. If you rotate over, then as soon as the rotation is completed, your C gives up the play and rotates to Trail and you have on-ball coverage. I mean, that's exactly why you rotated, isn't it?

Hmmm...gotta disagree with these points. The primary competitive match-up is NOT necessarily the ball-handler and dribbler...it could be...it usually is...but not ALWAYS.

And no, I don't rotate so I can have on-ball coverage. I rotate because the post players went/are going/will be going across...I'm not sure why you would rotate just to get to on-ball coverage. Sure that happens - you rotate and end up picking up the ball right away, but that shouldn't be why you rotate.

Maybe this is just one of those differences between NCAAM and NCAAW mechanics...don't know enough about your side of it to say...

Wait. Stop the presses.

You rotate counter to where the ball is? If the ball's on your side as L but there's a good match up on the opposite block you will rotate?

Seriously, what the heck does the C get payed to do?

I don't think he gets payed at all. I think he gets paid.

Maybe in *your* area he gets paid.

In my area he gets payed.

But that is why you live where you do.

Oh yeah....shut up.

WhistlesAndStripes · #18 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 06, 2005, 08:34pm

Are you bitter?

Dan_ref · #19 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 06, 2005, 08:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Are you bitter?

I don't know.

Why don't you take a lick & let me know.

Jurassic Referee · #20 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 06, 2005, 08:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Are you bitter?

Haven't you got anything better to do?

Oh, I forgot. The "send out the exam and answers" season is over, isn't it. You need something to do until it's time to send out next year's exam.

WhistlesAndStripes · #21 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 06, 2005, 08:50pm

At least get it right. I only sent out the exam. Someone else was providing all the answers.

Jurassic Referee · #22 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 06, 2005, 09:16pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
At least get it right. I only sent out the exam. Someone else was providing all the answers.

I'm sure he was. Is there really a difference though between you two?

Btw, do you charge for this little service or is it free for the other....um....people just like you? You know, the people that think the rest of us are stoopid for actually reading the rule book and trying to learn the rules. I gotta admit it really is so much easier doing exams your way.

Keep doing what you do best.

Kelvin green · #23 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 06, 2005, 11:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
But if not, the official who has the primary area should pick up the primary matchup, which is always the ballhander and defender.

Yes, otherwise, why rotate? If your C can handle the ballhandler fine, then let him/her. If you rotate over, then as soon as the rotation is completed, your C gives up the play and rotates to Trail and you have on-ball coverage. I mean, that's exactly why you rotated, isn't it?

Hmmm...gotta disagree with these points. The primary competitive match-up is NOT necessarily the ball-handler and dribbler...it could be...it usually is...but not ALWAYS.

And no, I don't rotate so I can have on-ball coverage. I rotate because the post players went/are going/will be going across...I'm not sure why you would rotate just to get to on-ball coverage. Sure that happens - you rotate and end up picking up the ball right away, but that shouldn't be why you rotate.

Maybe this is just one of those differences between NCAAM and NCAAW mechanics...don't know enough about your side of it to say...

I agree with Chuck. When the ball is in your area it is primary!. You rotate across strong ide because the play is most likely going there. The play may go to the post so if ball is out a ways rotate to ref the post but the reason you are there is because that's where the ball is coming

BOBBYMO · #24 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 07, 2005, 12:13am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
1)I am L. Ball below free throw line on C's side, so I rotate over. Technically the ball is now in my primary, but because the C (now T) had the play from the beginning, I will stay on the post players. I communicate that by keeping my body turned toward the post players.

2)I am C...ball is dribbled across top of key area into my primary, but I have post players which are a competitive match-up and don't want to let that go yet. I step down away from the ball or turn my body so I am looking at post, that tells my T not to leave the ball yet...

The more I learn about the women's game, the less I like it. You rotate ball-side, the ball is in your primary, and you don't officiate on-ball? The ball comes right at you into your primary, but you don't officiate on-ball? I'm sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever; especially in the first case.

Wouldn't it make more sense just to say that when the ball is in your primary, officiate the ball and trust your partners to officiate off-ball, since that's what they're supposed to do anyway.

Chuck-

Quick question for you about the mens side. If the player is dribbling the ball from T's primary to C's primary and you are the C... Do you pick up the player right away??

[Edited by BOBBYMO on Dec 7th, 2005 at 10:35 AM]

tomegun · #25 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 07, 2005, 05:15am

Bobbymo, if the ball is dribbled from the L's primary to the C's primary, there will more than likely be many players blocking out the L.
The answer to your question is YES! Who would be watching the ball if the person primary official made things too complicated by not watching it?

If a young official is looking at this thread - please do not be so smart that you don't look at the ball when it is in your primary! I would have to think about some exceptions, but this is generally not a good idea/philosophy.

rockyroad · #26 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 07, 2005, 10:29am

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelvin green

You rotate across strong ide because the play is most likely going there. The play may go to the post so if ball is out a ways rotate to ref the post but the reason you are there is because that's where the ball is coming

Correct...I don't think I ever disagreed with that...however, you also agree that you don't rotate and automatically pick the ball up - you stay on the post and when the ball comes in to the post, then you are on-ball. Isn't that what I said?

Sigh...sometimes these "conversations" are just way easier in person than talking to a monitor...plus my kids think I'm losing it!

BOBBYMO · #27 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 07, 2005, 10:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by BOBBYMO

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
1)I am L. Ball below free throw line on C's side, so I rotate over. Technically the ball is now in my primary, but because the C (now T) had the play from the beginning, I will stay on the post players. I communicate that by keeping my body turned toward the post players.

2)I am C...ball is dribbled across top of key area into my primary, but I have post players which are a competitive match-up and don't want to let that go yet. I step down away from the ball or turn my body so I am looking at post, that tells my T not to leave the ball yet...

The more I learn about the women's game, the less I like it. You rotate ball-side, the ball is in your primary, and you don't officiate on-ball? The ball comes right at you into your primary, but you don't officiate on-ball? I'm sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever; especially in the first case.

Wouldn't it make more sense just to say that when the ball is in your primary, officiate the ball and trust your partners to officiate off-ball, since that's what they're supposed to do anyway.

Chuck-

Quick question for you about the mens side. If the player is dribbling the ball from T's primary to C's primary and you are the C... Do you pick up the player right away??

[Edited by BOBBYMO on Dec 7th, 2005 at 10:35 AM]

ChuckElias · #28 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 07, 2005, 11:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
however, you also agree that you don't rotate and automatically pick the ball up

It's true that on the men's side it's possible to rotate and not pick up the ball. But that will be b/c the ball is not in your primary. In other words, you're rotating b/c the ball is high in the C's primary or the C has the ball and 8 players.

But when you rotate, IF the ball is in your new primary, you pick it up immediately.

Quote:

- you stay on the post and when the ball comes in to the post, then you are on-ball.

One difference that we haven't talked about is that the Lead's primary area is much much bigger in Women's coverage than in Men's coverage. In Women's, you have to cover all the way to the sideline. We don't even have to cover all the way to the 3-point line. For men, if the ball is in the Lead's primary, then it pretty much is in or near the post already.

But I don't think that really makes a huge difference to the discussion. I still think that when you rotate, if the ball is in your primary, then you pick up on-ball coverage as soon as the rotation is completed. Similarly, if you're the Lead, then you pick up the ball as soon as it comes into your primary, and trust your partners to work off-ball.

Kelvin green · #29 (**permalink**) Thu Dec 08, 2005, 11:56pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad

Quote:

Originally posted by Kelvin green

You rotate across strong ide because the play is most likely going there. The play may go to the post so if ball is out a ways rotate to ref the post but the reason you are there is because that's where the ball is coming

Correct...I don't think I ever disagreed with that...however, you also agree that you don't rotate and automatically pick the ball up - you stay on the post and when the ball comes in to the post, then you are on-ball. Isn't that what I said?

Sigh...sometimes these "conversations" are just way easier in person than talking to a monitor...plus my kids think I'm losing it!

Chuck sums it up best and I agree with him 100%. When you rotate and ball is in primary you better get it. The post may become secondary coverage...