how do you watch a game...

[tomegun]

I know the NBA is entertainment, so we agree on that. I can also agree that a foul on one player might not be a foul on another player, although you guys should admit it isn't as bad as it used to be.
**disclaimer** I'm not saying this to name drop.

I have been blessed to have Ronnie Nunn, Zach Zarba, Joe Forte and Greg Willard evaluate me working. The comments are on a whole different level than some D1 officials. I'm speaking purely from a mechanics POV and getting into the best position to make decisions. Whether they make decisions doesn't matter to me; if they help me get into a better position I have increased my understanding of what I need to do. That is what I'm basing my comments on. That applies to every level of officiating.

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by tomegun

That, IMO, is a false message that we should stop immediately! A lot of what they do is work to get the best angles and best court coverage possible. They spend money on the science of the 3-person system. That is the main point of all of this: getting plays right. Their mechanics are secondary to calling the right fouls and violations. They are also an example of sharing information and putting it into action. On the high school and college level, we share new information and many choose to interpret it differently, apply it differently and in some cases ignore it. As far as advantage/disadvantage their philosophy has trickled down and is right; RSBQ is universal. Getting open angles is universal. Rotating ball-side, although done with different criteria, is universal.

I use the RSBQ myself in all of my games. Got that pounded in my head at the SEC Camp.

[TriggerMN]

Originally posted by Junker
I have partial season tickets at Iowa State with a good friend that is an official and his wife. She hates sitting with us because 90% of the time we're talking about the officials rather than the game. She especially hates it when we have to mime big timer mechanics on the way to the car afterwards. The part I hate most is sitting next to the "well informed fan" screaming about fouls, 3 seconds and over the back from the second to the top row at Hilton because he certainly has a better look at the play than the officials on the floor.

Share the love...show me the Welmer block!!!

[Junker]

Trigger,
Kahuna and I were just talking about that at lunch the other day. Get me a game with you and I'll come up and show it off. I've worked in every part of my state, I might as well come up and do some in Canada with you.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

You're kidding, aren't you, Tom?

Hell, I can watch an NBA game and never have a clue what a foul is from one whistle to the next. Or traveling or palming, for that matter either. Guys taking four steps on lay-ups....wassup with that? I can't figure out what the NBA philosophy is supposed to be because everything is inconsistent as hell. It's OK to put someone in the third row and a touch foul is then gets called.

The NBA is pure entertainment and is refereed as such. NCAA and high school games are still games. I used to be a big-time NBA fan, but I just can't stand to watch their games anymore. The lack of fundamental skills, the show-boating and trash-talking, the constant whining at officials, freaking coaches that haveta call every single offensive and defensive set, somebody like Kobe shooting 8 for 37 and some dumb announcer trying to tell me how great he is because he scored 25.....yup, the NBA...Faaaaantastic.

You can have it, Tom. I can't stand watching it anymore. Give me an NCAA game any day, and I pray that the pro philosophies stay as far away from them as possible. Jmo.

When you look at the game from such a narrow perspective, of course you are not going to understand what is going on. The NBA is not a HS game where any little touch is expected to be called. You cannot look at the game through the same eyes.

Peace

[tmp44]

RSBQ???? Help!?!?!?!?!?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by tmp44
RSBQ???? Help!?!?!?!?!?

Rhythm, Speed, Balance, Quickness.

[WeekendRef]

JRUT ,
You just backed up Jurassic's point 100%....I am not sure if you meant to do that or wanted to do that .

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge

When you look at the game from such a narrow perspective, of course you are not going to understand what is going on. The NBA is not a HS game where any little touch is expected to be called. You cannot look at the game through the same eyes.

What narrow perspective? I don't understand?

I certainly can't understand when I see a player getting away with taking 3 or 4 steps going in for a slam one time, and another player doing the exact same thing and getting called for it. I see touch and phantom calls being made all the time in the NBA; I also see players being put into the popcorn maker and 3 officials swallowing their whistles.

I'll tell you what I don't understand. I don't understand how any team that could start C-Tim Duncan, PF-Amare Stoudamire, SF-Lebron James, PG-Dwayne Wade and SG-Allan Iverson and had a supposed all-time hall-of-fame coach running it could lose to Lithuania, Puerto Rico and Argentina. Puerto Rico, for God's sake! You're right- I sureashell can't understand the NBA when something like that happens.

You can be an apologist for the NBA if you want to be. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it. My opinion is the NBA in it's current state absolutely sucks. It's boring as hell to watch. Everybody can dunk but very few can dribble or jump-shoot consistently. If I want to be "entertained" like the NBA is supposedly currently doing, I'll turn on ESPN2 and look for the AND1 games. They're both refereed the same way. My opinion also is that NBA officials get the best training in the world, but they're being trained to officiate a game from an "entertainment" perspective rather than an actual rules-based perspective. They call what they're told to call...and damn the actual rules.

End of another rant.

[JRutledge]

The same thing you say about the NBA, I can say when I watch a local HS game. I do not see many travel calls or carry calls during HS games. Those rules are also applied inconsistently. Now that is my opinion and we will just have to agree to disagree on this one. I just do not think the official make any more mistakes or turn the other cheek any more than other officials.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Children, children, children!!! Please stop yelling so we can get back to a discussion of JohnBark's very interesting and illuminating question. Anyone would think you are all just hoodlums the way you carry on sometimes!

John, the way I watch a game depends on the game and the refs working it. A lot of times, I go to a game specifically to watch a certain ref work, and then, of course, I just watch that person, or at least how that person works in a team.

Sometimes, I'm working on a specific item, and then I watch for that item, such as where the refs position themselves on a press, or how they get an angle on a tough play, or when they talk to a coach, and when they don't.

Sometimes, it's just good for me to absorb general stuff such as advantage/disadvantage or the rhythm of administering a big game vs a less important game.

I usually decide ahead of time what I'm going to think about. Incidentally, I think the first thing you should work on in this way, is looking off-ball, if you don't already have it. Practicing looking away is very good for you when you're struggling with it. By doing it at someone else's game, you can really focus, and don't have to worry about other things.

Occasionally, it's fun to try to just enjoy a game from a neutral perspective. Don't watch anything in particular, don't worry about the calls. This can be constructive in giving you a "feel for the game".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I just do not think the official make any more mistakes or turn the other cheek any more than other officials.

Jmo, but I think that NBA officials probably make way fewer actual mistakes than officials at the lower levels. The inconsistency that I see is more the case of the NBA being "entertainment" oriented. If your employer tells you that, when in doubt, let something go because it's crowd-pleasing rather than strictly calling it by the book, then that's a heckuva lot of judgement to put on the guy with the whistle. I honestly feel that NBA refs get stuck in the middle sometimes, and way too much pressure is being put on them by the league office to meet unrealistic officiating expectations.

Again, jmo.

Btw, the NHL is exactly the same in my eyes. I loved hockey, going back to the Big Six days. What they've been playing for the last 15 years doesn't resemble hockey in any way, shape or form. The clutching, grabbing, left-wing locks(whatever the hell that is), interference, hooking, holding, etc. makes the game look like pro wrestling on ice. And again, blame the league and not the on-ice officials. The league dictated to their officials how they wanted the games to be called. The officials had to go along with them if they wanted to keep their jobs. The NHL has been as unwatchable as the NBA lately.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rainmaker
Children, children, children!!! Please stop yelling so we can get back to a discussion of JohnBark's very interesting and illuminating question. Anyone would think you are all just hoodlums the way you carry on sometimes!

Shut up.

Blame the Equal Rights Amendment for that one, not me.

[tomegun]

It might be entertainment, but they are the best officials and they know how to get into position and see plays better than any other group of officials.
If we are talking about watching games to see officials, that is the best game to watch. If you want to see basketball in it's purest form, I think you will be hard pressed. The same thing you say about the NBA being entertaining is trickling down as well.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Shut up.

Blame the Equal Rights Amendment for that one, not me.