Alright guys,

So last night I am doing a Varsity level city league game, the kids are cahtter mouths and think they are in the NBA ( and want the calls that way) but I didn't acre much for them (except the 3 T's i called becaus ethey wouldnt shut up).

But now to my question, there was a lot of off/def run-ins which ended up with def ending up on the floor. 3 of those were called PC on one player alone that night, but there was hmmmm bout 10 other ones that neither me or my partner called either a block or charge, I didn't called them because I felt that contact was not enough for the defense to fall so i had no call. After the game though I started wondering, if i should have called a couple of them player controls or even blocks, I wasnt sure anymore why exactly I didn't call them , so I was wondering when would you guys NOT call block/charge when 1 OR 2 players end up on the floor.

Thank ya boys ;)

so no girls allowed on this thresd?

I think the only thing you can ask yourself is how did the player get on the floor? Did the player fall on their own volition? Did the player get put their by the contact of other players? Did the ball handler run into the defender? Was their LGP? Other than those things I do not know what to tell you. I was not at the game and I did not see the play. If a player flops I am more likely to either not call anything or a foul on them. Then I will tell that player that they need to stop flopping all together.

Peace

Good Response JR..... Call what you See not what you think you Saw.

Lots of Oscars can be given out to High School V players sometimes.

Sorry Rainmaker didn't mean to discriminate, it just felt like most of the people on here were guys, I apologize.

But yeah I know it is hard to comment on these calls, i was just lookin for generla comments, thanks for responding guys AND girl

If you referee the defense, you can see these plays more easily. That really is the best advice I can give you overall. If you referee the defense at least you know who caused the contact and why the players are on the floor.

Peace

I usually call a blocking foul on these to avoid more players trying to act. You have to earn a charge in my book!

Correct me if I’m wrong. But players flopping is a technical foul. At lease in here it is.

I'm not so sure we're talking so much about a flop. But more about not neccessarily enough contact to call a p/c foul. That's why I usually tell me partner in pregame to call something when we have players go done (block/charge) because nothing makes us look worse and it will eliminate kids tying to steal a call.

If you want to be technically right it would be. It would not make a lot of common sense if there is some contact if you ask me. I just would not go there unless there was no contact at all.

Peace

I look for contact through the defender. If it's there and there is some acting to sell it, I still have the charge, but I'm going to have a word with the player about not selling it.

If there was not contact through the defender, I look for contact after the flopper hits the floor, and I'm liable to call very minimal contact a block.

In any case the player will get a stop flopping warning.

Contact ?
 

If there's contact and two players end up on the floor then you usually need to call something - I know as a coach for offense or the defense I would want some type of foul called if my player was impeded.

But, the key is to watch the defensive player. If there is LGP and the contact is on the torso of the defender call the charge and give him credit for a great play.

Now, if there's some contact and neither player hits the floor, then it might have been incidental etc.,

Now if there's a flop, I'm going to probably let it go the first time and make sure the player knows that I know its a flop etc.,

Thanks
David

Tweet-Did the coaches question any of the non-calls? It's tough to have that many situations and simply pass. Eventually a coach is going to ask why it's not a charge and then you have to tell them.... what? When I first started officiating I, in a very similar situation, stated "Coach-it's a flop and he'll probably do it again." One of those the minute it came out of my mouth I wished I could take it back deals. I typically call more blocks, and have never called a technical, when teams make my life difficult by flopping. As stated before it's a much simpler call if you are locked in on both the primary and secondary defender.

Re: Contact ?
 

I see plenty of cases, especially with advanced players, where you can have both players on the floor without a need for a whistle.

A1 goes to the basket and their body is going diagonally away from B1. B1 in an effort to draw the charge falls straight back...following my contact through the defender...this is obviously not a charge. A1 is attempting to avoid the charge and does so with good body control, but that effort leads to an off balance landing and now we have two players on the floor.

Like with any call, we have to judge how those players ended up on the floor, and not just have a call because they are there.;)

Tweet,

I wasn't there so you may have got them all right. However, 10 cases where bodies hit the floor with no whistle sounds like a lot.

Going with too many non-calls can lead to a pretty rough game and things can get ugly.

Like I said, I wasn't there. While evaluatiung other officials, I have seen a lot more non-calls that should have had a whistle than the other way around.

Z

Really?

I tend to see blocks that could have been charges, charges that could have been blocks, and one or the other that could have been nothing.

Many inexperienced official struggle with consistency by penalizing good defense or rewarding acting, there is a reason block/charge is considered the hardest call.

I don't.

It's usually the easist call.

It's easy when you have seen enough of them, do we need to define inexperienced for you?:D

I see your point. It sounded like ther may have been a lot of flopping. I know I have had games where the kids flop so good and so often you have to stop it.

IMO they are easy enough for most inexperienced officials to judge properly.

Call a foul on them. They will eventually get the message. Either they are not going to be around very much longer trying to flop or fake contact. I am also not saying to never call a T on a flop. I just would try other means. When you call a T, now the focus is on rather than the player. When the focus changes to you as the official, now every call is dissected. If you are calling a T on this play, what other things could you call a T for? Get my drift?

Peace

At a camp, I heard a big timer from the NCAA talk about judgment on the block/charge. He said he basically looks at where the contact is made. If the defender gets hit right in the chest, its a PC foul. If the defender gets hit anywhere else, its a block. Not exactly by the book, but if you look at them all this way, you'll at least be consistant. I thought it was a nice, simple way to look at a play that can be confusing for lesser experienced officials.

I guess B1 can take it right in the chest and that contact is never when B1 stepped into A1?;)

I hear ya. I have only given the T for this once. The same kid was Flopping all over the place. After the second one. I warned the coach. Then he did it again, and I had the whack him. It did stop after that. But I understand your point.

good point. If there is LGP B1 gets there first then the onus is on A1 to avoid the contact etc.,

I see this a lot on the sidelines, B1 is there with just a little room to spare; however, A1 forces the issue and tries to go by, he might hit B1 a little off square and the official calls the block because B1 did not get hit in the chest, but by rule B1 was correct.

Thanks
David