Looks like the Big Ten is getting the better of it tonight. Tony, what's the deal with those wierd shoulder panels on the UNC jerseys? :confused:

UNC almost stole that game. Made a nice comeback to cut it to 4.

Certainly a better game than my 100-67 game tonight.

Big Ten getting the better of it? I don't think so. They were supposed to run away with it this year and it's tied 3-3. They actually cut it to 2 and had 3 chances to tie it but made some freshman mistakes.

Illnois had the same "panels." Must be a Nike thing. I didn't care for them either.

If you're gonna gets us, you better get us this year. Because in another year or two, we're gonna be in a situation where we don't lose more than 2 or 3 games a season, at the very most!

Huh. I take it back, then. I only saw the games on ESPN and ESPN2, which were both Big 10 wins.

I noticed the panels on the Illinois jerseys, too, but I wasn't sure who I could razz about it. :)

Don't look at me; I'm no uniform designer.

I haven't actually seen a game yet this year, although I have had a chance to listen to most on the radio. So, what type of shoulder panels are you talking about? None of the pictures I've seen of the game show anything unusual.

I cannot help myself!
 

Can you answer two questions for me.

1. What school has had more talent, across the board (not just two centers!), than UNC, EVER?
2. In your opinion, is the amount of trophies in line with the amount of talent.

Keep in mind, I'm a Hoosier; the team that won three with a "crazy" coach, a little talent and a whole bunch of guys destined for blue-collar jobs instead of NBA jobs.

Ohio State, Michigan and Illnois have Big 10 wins.

Clemson, Florida State and Wake Forest have ACC wins.

There's a silver "panel" that extends from the neckline to the shoulder that's probably 3-4 inches wide. It was a lot more noticeable on the white hmoe Tar Heels uni's than the navy Illni road jerseys. Either way, it was ugly.

Looks pretty good on the kentucky Blue with white panel and the Blue with white panel...IMO :)

Re: I cannot help myself!
 

Probably no other. But circumstances have cost us championships, not any single common issue, except maybe players leaving early and turning pro. We've probably had more players do that than any other shcool. McAdoo, Worthy, Jordan, Reid, Stackhouse, Wallace, Jamison, Carter, may, Felton, Williams, and McCants. Has anyone else ever had 4 to leave in the same year and all be drafted in the top 13. We certainly would have been the favorite this year, Of course, that and a buck will get you hot coffee at McDonals.

In the early years when only one team from each conference went to the tourney, the ACC Tournament was brutal. Win or go home.

Should have beat Marquette in the '77 game, even with LaGarde, Kupchak, and Ford all injured. Came back, had control of the game and Dean went to the 4 corners, Took uas out of our rhythm and Al McQuire got his only championship.

Isaiah killed us in '81. After the '82 title, Worthy went pro. A repeat was very likely if he had stayed. In '84, we were cruising at 17-0 when an LSU player broke Kenny Smith wrist on a hard foul. Then Perkins got drunk the night before we played Indiana in the second round, was hung over, Jordan fouled out, and your Hoosiers outplayed us and won.

It was lean for a few years inn the late 80's. The 90's were better with several Final Fours and the '93 championship. The '94 teams should have repeated but the influx of Stackhouse and Wallace did provide much chemistry with Montross and friends. Stackhouse and Wallace left early, followed by Jamison and Carter. But Duke had some pretty good teams then too. They've had some tremendous college players who haven't faired as well in the NBA as the Heels.

I think (hope) things will be a little different under Roy Williams.

Good luck tonight. As much as I pull for the ACC, I can't pull for the Dookies, who presently have the best basektball program in the country.

Re: I cannot help myself!
 

#1. Kentucky 1996...10 players in the NBA, 7 first rounders. 8 of the 10 have held spots on NBA rosters at least until 2005 and only 2 had short NBA careers.
<LI>Antoine Walker
<LI>Walter McCarty
<LI>Tony Delk
<LI>Mark Pope
<LI>Ron Mercer
<LI>Derek Anderson
<LI>Nazr Mohammed
<LI>Jeff Sheppard
<LI>Scott Padgett (redshirt)
<LI>Wayne Turner

Hard to beat that lineup (as their opponents found in 1996 with an average point differential of 22 for the season. That was also the year in which UK passed UNC in most games won (they were already substantially ahead in win %...UNC has several more losses). ;)


[Edited by Camron Rust on Nov 30th, 2005 at 11:30 AM]

I'm going to see a couple of games in Dec., so I'll have to watch for that. Maybe I'm just gettin' old, but I always considered the baggy shorts ugly, so I guess not much gets my attention after that.

Hmm, except camouflage. Now, THAT would be ugly.

So you prefer the "hot pants" of the 70's? Remembering that there weren't many women players back then...

Re: Re: I cannot help myself!
 

I'm talking about all-time, not just one year - but you do bring up a good argument.

I would just say UNC and Duke have had some of the greatest recruiter's ever but not the greatest coaches. Gasp! Yes, I said that. I would trade players with UNC and keep our coach. I have a strange feeling Knight would have had more than 3 championships with those "problems." Considering those three programs - Duke, UNC and IU - and the trophies should be a measuring stick for all this praise we have to hear from the media (vitale) all the time. IU has obviously had less talent but has the same amount of championships as Coach K and one more than Smith. Roy Williams isn't out of the woods yet because he always had talent at Kansas, they just didn't win when it counted. Last year's team was so much more talented than the other teams it wasn't funny. The fact they didn't win by 30 like UNLV did against Duke once again should be used to measure the coaching. Look at other coaches.

Pitino had talent to win it all and he won it all. He did have talent to win it all at least one other time but he made what I would consider one of the worst coaching moves ever by not doubling Laetner.
Thompson had the talent to win it all 3 years and one it once. I would almost consider him in the same light if not for 70% shooting by Villanova, cocaine and no shot clock.
Nolan Richardson had the talent to win it all twice and one it once. Pretty good.
Wooden is the greatest of all time.

Re: Re: Re: I cannot help myself!
 

Say what? They won the national championsip and you're criticizing them for not winning by 30? :confused:

Don't do such a disservice to Illinois. Let's not forget that not only were the odds on favorite to win the tourney from the beginning, they were also the favorite to beat Carolina. Newspapers across the country touted the game as the best team vs. the best talent. In the end, we found out that the best talent was the best team. Not winning by 30 doesn't make that trophy any less deserved or enjoyable. ;)

Talent?
 

Don't have time for the stats, maybe a good team but not the best talent.

Of the 10, I only remember 5 at all, and only a couple had an NBA career that was memorable at all.

But a good case in point

Thanks
David

Knight couldn't hold on to Larry Bird long enough for one game.

:D

Chuck, if we include Gardner Webb's victory over Minnesota last night, the ACC is up 4-3. :D

GW is an Atlantic Sun school in Boiling Springs, NC. Carolina opened with them and survived 83-80.

Re: Re: Re: I cannot help myself!
 

Regarding Pitino and Laetner. It should be known that he did instruct the players to guard Laetner on the final shot but they backed off, not following the coaches instructions.

Wooden was certainly very good. However, he did coach in an environment that gave UCLA an advantage in the tourney. The concentration of competitive teams was substantially higher in all areas of the country other than the west and the tourney brackets were truly regional. UCLA essentially had a cake walk to the final four while all of the other regions had to play real competition in the earlier rounds...knocking each other out...not to mention the fact that only one of each conference went to the tourney.

Re: Re: Re: Re: I cannot help myself!
 

I remember that tourney as a teenager, Camron.
We knew it as The UCLA Invitational.
mick

Go Heels!

Go, go, Dukies !
Go, go, Dukies !
Down the floor and out the door.
Go, go, Dukies !

The Evil Empire from Durham

Spartans and Bulldogs
Dukies and Gophers

Lions and Tigers. :D

Maryland's got 'em too. Blech. Maybe they're all trying to look unique -- only everybody tried the same approach at the same time.

...And Bears! Oh, my!

[Houghton Gremlin girls are at the Semi-finals tomorrow.]
mick

Alright.

Haven't checked 'em since V left.

Fun to watch. Tallest player is 5'8" (two seniors) , but talk about "GO"!
(ie., Opponent throws the ball from free throw line to mid court where it hits the bleachers outa bounds. Going other way. A fan throws it back on court. Any Gremlin guard [always running] grabs the ball tosses it to the ref just leaving the baseline and stands at the exact spot of the throw-in [midcourt] just vibrating with her hands out ready for the bounce pass.) Those girls regularly start a fast break off a throw-in.

I think Oatmealqueen may have worked their 1/4-Final.
mick

Jim Burr and Donnie Gray just kicked a play that no one here should miss as we discuss it all the time.

A1 drives and is in the act of shooting, B1 fouls A2, A1 releases shot and it goes.

Wanna guess what they did? :(

__________________________________________________ ____

Looks like GT gave State all they could handle! :o

Did not see the entire play.
 

They should have counted the basket. I did not actually see the entire play. All I heard was Vitale liked the call. I guess there should have been continuous motion awarded?

Peace

Team A outa bounds?

__________________________________________________ ____
And GT is unranked?
If Paul Davis starts playing like a man, instead of a big boy, Spartans may hurt someone.
mick

Yes, there should have been. they should have counted the basket and they flat out blew it. Vitale blew it too. he said the ball had to be released before the shot. Dead wrong. Interestingly enough, Burr originally counted the basket, then changed it after talking to Gray.

Duke has the same ugly uniforms. :(

In looking at the replays, I believe that the act of shooting had not yet begun. Therefore, the off-ball foul by Duke made the ball dead and the goal was correctly waved off.
It was certainly close though.
Just my opinion.

Monson just flat out lost it tonight in the MN/MD game. Threw his coat, got 2 T's and put his coat back on before making the walk o' shame.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=253340120

I did not see this play. However, can someone describe what the shooter was doing at the time the foul occured? I would really like to know if he was NOT in the act of shooting.

Just to be nitpicky: Mr. Gray's name is spelled Donnee, not Donnie.

I see Mr. Spelling Guy's intern is still on the ball.

I only got a chance to listen to the game on the radio with the IN announcers, and I was surprised when they mentioned Burr had counted the basket, then he and Gray got together before waving it off. All the announcers mentioned was that it was a big deal for IN from a scoring standpoint; to their credit, they didn't really get into a rules discussion over whether it should or shouldn't count (like some announcers we know). But that did leave me wondering what did actually happen, and in what order.

JRut didn't see the play. Is that a shock to anyone except me???

LOL

Rut, do we have any games together down state this year??

Damn good question, Tommy... er, Tommie, I mean To....screw it! :)

He's lucky I didn't call him Dummee after talking Burr out of that one. The IU player had clearly started his shooting motion before the foul occurred. He was even in the air about to release the ball when the whistle came. They just flat out blew it and I'm sure were told so today.

NV, you must be yelling "ON THE FLOOR, ON THE FLOOR!" an awful lot in your games if you thought there wasn't continuous motion on that play. It was text book.

BTW, ACC wins again. :p

Obviously, there's cheatin' goin' on somewhere...

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I guess we just are seeing the timing of the foul differently. In my opinion at the moment that Sheldon Williams hooks the arm of the IU player under the basket and pulls him aside, the IU player driving down the end line is just gathering the ball at the end of his dribble in preparation for a jumpstop.
I agree that the whistle came slightly after this point, but to me that is what the "shooter" was doing when the foul occurred. After this moment, the "shooter" can be seen landing simultaneously on both feet and then jumping up for the try.
I don't consider the action of making a jumpstop part of the act of shooting.
As I said above, I thought it was a close call, but I've watched it three times and still believe that DonnEE Gray got it right.

Tony perhaps you consider the foul to happen later, but for me it is the initial contact with the arms that determines it. And I never say, "on the floor." I'm a "no shot" guy. :)

Hey Nevada, it wasn't the Big 10 or the ACC, but that was a nice win in Kansas last night.

[Edited by ChuckElias on Dec 2nd, 2005 at 10:23 AM]

Huh? :confused:

Did you drive a front end loader over a 70 foot cliff, or sumthin'? That one don't make sense.

LOL. If I edit my post, will you delete yours to remove all the evidence of my stupidity?

Certainly not!

Do you want people to think that maybe I am actually am a nice guy? :eek:

Still Grumpy, I see. :)

:)

I guess we'll just disagree. I have it on DVR and have watched it several times. The shooter has begun his motion, the foul, Burr whistles and bangs it home. He shouldn't have let Gray talk him out of it. "The whistle came slightly after this point" because the foul came after when yoiu say it did. It's not a foul just to stick your arm out.

Nevada, just to clear things up a little. You have A1, who is a strong player, driving to the basket and B1 is making contact. If the contact remains the same from the dribble, before the shot, and all the way up to the shot, would you call a foul when the contact forces A1 to miss the shot? If so, would you say it was on the floor because the foul started before the shot or would you give A1 two shots because he was shooting when you blew your whistle?
I still haven't seen this play but my point is a foul is a foul when we call it. There are many time when the foul isn't called when the foul actually starts and we go by what was happening when we blow the whistle, not what was happening when the contact began. I hope I'm being clear. With this thinking in mind, did the whistle occur after the try began?

It has been a great past week for Nevada basketball.
They won four games on the road: @Vermont, @UNLV, @Kansas, and @Pacific.

The Pacific win was interesting. Nevada trailed by 9 at the half, but was able to overcome the deficit by shooting 25 of 28 from the FT line in the second half (27 for 30, 90% for the game). Nevada was in the bonus with 16:12 remaining in the 2nd half!
When was the last time you saw that?

Hey Nevada, did you see my post above?