1. B-1 Reaches through the plane of the boundary line and fouls thrower-in A-1. Official charges B-1 with an intentional personal foul and issues a warning to team B. Is the official correct?

2. While A-1's try is in flight, A-2 fouls B-2. The try is successful. Team B is not in the bonus. Official rules team B's throw-in is a designated spot throw-in. Is the official correct?

3. A-1's try hits the ring and bounces straight up in the imaginary cylinder above the ringt livel, when B-1 touches the basket. Official rules this basket interference. Is the official correct?

4. B-1, while playing the ball causes excessive contact. Official rules this an intentional personal foul. IS the official correct?

5. A double personal foul is charged while team A is in countrol. Official awards the ball to team A nearest the spot of the foul. Is the official correct?

I'm not going to give you the answer, but I will tell you that this is THE most missed question on the IAABO exam every year. Gotta know your definitions.

As I said, I'm not going to give you the answers, b/c #1-#4 are pretty basic questions. Why don't you tell us your answers and why you chose them. Then we can tell you where you need to brush up.

This one's not basic, b/c it's a rule change this year. Remember for double fouls you go to the POI. So you need to brush up on the definition of Point of Interruption. That will tell you who gets the ball and where. (This question is testing whether you know where the ball is put into play.)

My answers:

1. N
2. Y
3. N
4. N
5. N

Ok, but how did you arrive at those answers? Any rules to back them up?

I'm away at college and I forgot my rulebooks back home. I'm just going by experience and what I remember. That's why I'm asking you guys, normally, I'd just look them up.

You got 2 of the 5 right.

1. B-1 Reaches through the plane of the boundary line and fouls thrower-in A-1. Official charges B-1 with an intentional personal foul and issues a warning to team B. Is the official correct?

I say no, because I don't think you need to give a warning along with the Intentional.

2. While A-1's try is in flight, A-2 fouls B-2. The try is successful. Team B is not in the bonus. Official rules team B's throw-in is a designated spot throw-in. Is the official correct?

I can't remember whether B can run the endline or take the spot.

3. A-1's try hits the ring and bounces straight up in the imaginary cylinder above the ringt livel, when B-1 touches the basket. Official rules this basket interference. Is the official correct?

BI can only happen if the ring is touched when the ball is on the ring.

4. B-1, while playing the ball causes excessive contact. Official rules this an intentional personal foul. IS the official correct?

Excessive contact does not constitute an intentional foul.

5. A double personal foul is charged while team A is in countrol. Official awards the ball to team A nearest the spot of the foul. Is the official correct?

POI is wherever A had the ball, not where the foul occured.

You charge the intentional immediately, but you also issue the warning. That way, the next time somebody breaks the plane, it's a T and not simply the initial warning.

Team B would still be allowed to run the endline in this case, b/c it's after a made basket or awarded score. The common foul does not negate the ability to run the endline. (In college, even a non-common foul would not negate the ability to run the endline.)

Well, it's not the only way BI can happen; but you're right that this particular case is not BI.

Again, gotta know your definitions. It is an intentional foul if, while playing the ball, the defender causes excessive contact.

Correct!

Ok, I will give this a shot. LOL This shoudl be good.

1. I think it's dumb to charge both. In fact, as soon as the defender crosses the plane, the official should blow it dead for the warning. Then if there is contact, it has to be a T. So either penalize just the intentional personal, or not havethe possibility of an intentional personal. Since that is not true, you only penalize one. I say the official is wrong.

2. I say No. I believe the Fed wants to not take away B's chance to run the endline.

3. No BI. With the ball in the cylinder, you can't touch the ball. When the ball is touching the rim, you can't touch the ball, net, rim. or flange.

4. Yes.

5. By the strictest definition, the game was interrupted where A had the ball. Throw-in from there.

The official is wrong. That is, the official JugglingReferee is wrong. :)

The correct answer is charge an intentional foul and report a DOG warning. Shoot 2 FTs and give the ball back to A at the spot.

BTW, your scenario is the same, you simply changed the sequence. You said, "as soon as the defender crosses the plane, the official should blow it dead for the warning. Then if there is contact, it has to be a T." The penalty phase is almost identical. Report the DOG warning, assess the T, have any player on A shoot the 2 FTs and give Team A the ball at the division line. IOW, your solution is no different than the NFHS ruling that you oppose. :confused:

:D With the exceptions that one foul is a T and one is a personal foul. They usually have different impacts on the way that player plays.

If the official had a provision to blow the play dead as soon as the plane was broken, he might prevent continued action and prevent a foul.

In other words, my solution is different. ;)

Edit: correct italic tag.

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Nov 21st, 2005 at 11:14 PM]

FWIW
 

It is different, is it not, in that in one case the throw-in will come from the division line opposite the table and in the other case from the spot of the foul?

Yup, your solution sure is different-- different than case book play 10.3.11SitC. :D

<B>10.3.11SITUATION C:</B>
Team A scores near the end of the fourth quarter and is trailing by one point. B1 has the ball and is moving along the end-line to make the throw-in. A2 steps out of bounds and fouls B1. Is the foul personal or technical?
<B>RULING:</B> This is an intentional personal foul. The time remaining to be played or whether Team A had previously been warned for violating the throw-in plane is not a factor. <b>If the team had not been warned, the foul constitutes the warning.</b>

Casebook play 9.2.11 covers the companion situation- knocking the ball out of the thrower's hand. The ruling is a technical foul <b>and</b> a delay warning.

My Answer also -

1-Y
2-Y
3-Y
4-N
5-N ball is placed at the POI.

2 right outa 5 also.

Thanks, your apple is on your desk teacher.

I agree with all of Chuck's answers, but I'll point out that there's not enough information in question 2 to answer it definitively.

If A2's foul was near the end-line, then Chuck's answer is correct. If A2's foul was such that the throw-in would be on the sideline, then it's obviously a spot throw-in.

I agree that Chuck's answer is likely what the test maker intended.

Very good point! That could spawn a new rule: B gets to choose the spot or endline throw-in, as they see fit.

The throw-in official would ask the on-floor captain just like R's in football ask about penalty enforcement.

There's no way in hell, I'm ever going to give options in a basketball game. Mostly because I don't have an ump to fall back on :p

??? Why do you say there is not enough information and that it would ever go to the sideline. The rule is clear that if there is a field goal scored on a foul that it is taken from the baseline and that the offended team can run the baseline. This prevents a team from fouling whie shot is in the air to force a spot throw-in (yes there are teams and coaches that smart). It does not make sense that a team scores and the other team is forced into a disadvantage because they cannot run. Chuck is 100 percent right that this is a baseline throw-in

Not really, Kelvin.

The new rule- R7-5-5- sez that "after a common foul prior to the bonus rule being in effect, as in 4-19-2, any player of the offended team shall make the throw-in from <b>the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the foul</b>".

Iow, if the closest spot to the occurrance of the foul is on a sideline, it's a spot throw-in.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Nov 24th, 2005 at 10:55 AM]

7-5-7 has not been superceded and neither has 7-5-3. I do not believe that the we should take away the privilige of running the endline. By not giving the endline it gives the offening team a distinct advantage. That's why they added that a few years ago.

My guess is once again the rules writers wrote something and screwed it up. If you read the comments on the rules 7-5-5 was added makes the penalty consistent for team control and player control fouls.. The comments specificall state that rule only applies when the team is in control, and that there is no team control during a throwin, jump ball, or when ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

Based on the comments this does not apply to a scored field goal when there is a foul by a scoring team not in control of the ball

I will state that Chuck is right and I stand by that. Sorry

R7-5-7 is applicable <b>only</b> for common fouls committed <b>after</b> a goal was scored and <b>during the ensuing throw-in</b>. You're trying to justify your answer with a rule that has absolutely nuthin' to do with a common foul that was committed <b>before</b> a basket was scored. They're completely different situations and different rules apply for each situation. If you were correct in your interpretation of R7-5-7 applying, then why would the FED put R7-5-5 in the rule book in the first place? There would be no need for it if it was already covered in another rule.

Sorry, I can't agree with you and Chuck either. I'll go with Bob Jenkins. I think that Chuck needs to contact his state IAABO interpreter on this one.

Still disagree.

7-5-7 says that ball is awarded out of bounds after a goal or awarded goal as in 7-4-3 ( ball is awarded out of bounds after field goal or a suceesful FT or awarded goal.) Nothing about an ensuing throw-in.

Based on the comments on the new rule, 7-5-5 was written specifcally to addess team fouls and PC whn a team is in control...

I still believe the rules committe never intended to take away the run after a score. That is a privilige you get from the score. The committee would never allow an offending team to force a spot throw-in on a foul after a score since that's why the run end line provision was put inthere. Cases play 7.5.7E concure with the ruling.

Still can't agree. Case book play 7.5.7E has the spot of the foul occuring on the bottom block. The closest OOB spot to where that foul occurred <b>is</b> the endline, and the ball then goes to the closest spot as per 7-5-5. That's the only reason that B is allowed to run the endline. If A2 hadda committed a foul in that case play at a spot closest to a sideline instead , that's where the spot throw-in woulda been as per 7-5-5.

What are we disagreeing about? Are you saying that in the following sequence:

1. try released
2. foul against the defense (not committed by airborne shooter)
3. ball enters basket

the throw-in after the basket is from a designated spot? I'm not exactly clear what I'm supposed to ask about.

Ask about these 2 cases:

2a) The foul is near the baseline
2b) The foul is near mid-court

we all agree that in 2a, the ball is inbounded on the end-line, and Team B can run the endline.

In 2B, some would administer a spot throwin near mid-court, and some would administer a throwin on the endline with B being allowed to run.

Ok. So JR's not really disagreeing with me after all, since I haven't really said anything about 2B. My initial answer assumed 2A, since that's what the test is probably (99.44%) asking. But I can ask about it.

For the record, I'd be inclined to side with JR. If the foul is committed near the midcourt line while the successful try is in the air, I think you'd go to the spot closest to the foul. Yes, you lose the advantage of running the endline, but you gain the advantage of advancing the ball 28'.

Yup, I always did agree with your original answer. The question was a little vague but I think the answer you gave was the point that they were trying to get across. I was disagreeing with Kelvin that <b>all</b> throw-ins have to go on the endline, no matter where the foul occurred.