Scramble for the ball. A1 laying on B1, both on the floor. A1 secures the ball & rolls off B1.

Travel? Or not?

Is this a trick question? A1 is on top of B1. Why is that not a foul?

My answer is yes in both NFHS and NCAA. You have a player with possession of the ball fall to the floor.

Heck, yeah, it's a travel. But there was probably a foul first.

Call the foul on A1 for laying on top of B1, forget the travel.

Why is this a foul on A1? Considerable contact is allowed on this play.

In addition, it is possible that this is the result of B1 tripping A1, or pulling the ball and the player to the floor.

There is not enough information to support that. You would be better off calling the foul for A1 laying on top of B1

As long as the two players start from equally advantageous positions. If B1 is on the floor and reaching for the ball and A1 lands on top of him, that's a foul.

That's my point. There's not enough information to call a foul either.

Well whenever you have an opposing player laying on top of another player, than that is a foul.

That's part of the rule, but not the complete rule. "Contact which occurs unintentionally in an effort by an opponent to reach a loose ball or contact which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal, even though the contact may be severe".

Scramble for the ball. A1 laying on B1, both on the floor. A1 secures the ball & rolls off B1.

Travel? Or not?
__________________

OK.....Ok.....first let's clean up the grammar. Kids read this Forum. We don't want little Johnny or Jane to get a rejection letter from Princeton because they read the Officials Forum. Instead of promising Medical Careers...they might end up as Refs?

Don't mix up 'lie' and 'lay'. You lay something, as in they are going to lay the carpet, but you lie down on a bed or other flat surface. Sentences such as he is laying on the bed or why don't you lie it on the bed? are wrong: correct forms are he is lying on the bed and why don't you lay it on the bed?

Back to the play. If B1 is lying on his or her back with both feet on the floor facing A1. I call that Legal Guarding Position. A1 secures control and gravity slams him/her down onto B1. It's basically a Gravitational Player Control Foul. Simple....no need to worry about all those overly complicated Traveling Rules.

I agree with Jim completely. There's no information available in the original post that would let us determine whether there was a foul or incidental contact. Just lying on top of an opponent does not mean that a foul has been committed.

No matter what, whether a foul occurred or didn't occur is completely irrelevant to the original question-- which is "is this a travel or not?".

If B1 rolls off of A1, and dosent attempt to pass the ball, its a travel.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

That 'unintentional contact' is bumping shoulders or something like that. Jumping onto someone else's back is not unintentional contact, IMHO.

And notice in my original reply, I didn't say this was definitely a foul. I said it was definitely a travel, but there was probably a foul first. Hard to land on somebody's back without there being a foul there somewhere.

My sentaments exacatly.

How do you know that A1 jumped on B1? Did you acquire some strange, mystical powers when we weren't looking? The original post simply stated that A1 was laying on B1. It didn't say how A1 got there. Have you considered that B1 may have jumped on A1 and A1 then rolled to get on top. There are myriad possibilities. Myriad, I say!

Now, is it traveling or not? That is the question. Dan_ref will be unable to sleep until he is enlightened.

I answered it in my post on page 1.

Think
 

"Have you considered that B1 may have jumped on A1 and A1 then rolled to get on top. There are myriad possibilities. Myriad, I say!"

Think Kama Sutra.

OK, some clarifications.

1. Scramble for the ball. A1 <s>laying</s> lying on B1, both on the floor. A1 secures the ball & rolls off B1.

2. No one fell on anyone else. Just a mass of wriggling bodies - some on the floor some bending over - all trying to secure the same ball, which was doing its best to be very uncooperative.

3. Somehow in this mess A1 ended up laying...errr....lying across B1 as he secured the ball. B1 had zero chance of getting the ball IMO regardless of A1's position.

4. A1 (who was on his back btw on top of B1, who was also on his back btw) intentionally rolls off B1 onto the floor.

Travel? Or not?

Travel according to situation below -

If A1 rolls off of B1, and dosent attempt to pass the ball, its a travel.

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without violating? RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or call a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

Re: Think
 

I definitely will NOT think Kama Sutra on the basketball board.
I will not think Kama Sutra on thebasketball board.
I will not think Kama Sutra on the basketball board.
I will not think Kama Sutra on the basketball board.

Well, last year I had this very play up until the "getting the ball and rolling over" part. And it was in an evaluated game, and I got dinged for not calling a foul. In fact, it was missing that call that cost me a play-off game, I think. So around here, whether Jurassic agrees or not, the call is holding.

I don't know if is a Travel or not? It sounds more like Pam Anderson's coffee break.

Not enough players involved.

I am going to chime in and say call a foul. Even given the sketchy information one player on top of another is clearly making contact and getting an advantage. You in theory could have a play where they both go for the ball and one ends up on top, and you might have incidental contact. But I would think 90 percent plus I would call a foul