2 or 3? Here we are again!!

[Richard Ogg]

Remember the fun question about a player who throws the ball toward their basket from the far end -- the ball bounces and then goes through the basket. Is it 2 or 3? We all agreed that it is 2 because the "try" ended when the ball fell below the rim.

Now it may be different!

A rule change now states "Rule 5-2-1 awards three points for any ball thrown, passed or shot from beyond the three-point arc that passes through a teamÂ’s own basket." And what happens if horn sounds here/now/then? Oh boy!

Also, players must now stand during a 30-second timeout. Wonder what the penalty is if one sits (or collapses)? And how are you going to enforce that one?!


For the full release see http://www.nfhs.org/press/pr_coachesbox_inbound.htm and then wait for the interpretations!!!

[Dan_ref]

Richard, I actually like the way both of these rules are
now worded because they have eliminated ambiguity.
In the past the unwritten rule on 3 point shots was
if it went in it was a shot, even though the rules
allowed us to decide if we thought the shot was a pass. (I've never seen this in one of my games so I've never
had the opportunity to call it right or wrong). As
for the "must stand during 30 second TO" rule, all coaches
will get to hear in person what they must do next fall.
I haven't heard there's a penalty for non-compliance
but if a coach tells me I can't make him stand when I
remind him during a game he's gonna get himself a T.
If one of his players collapse then he's out of the
game and can't return without a doctors note (NFHS),
so I guess his sub will have to stand

[Dave Brost]

I am wondering if rule 5-2-1 applies to a ball that bounces after being released by the thrower/passer/shooter? Was it not the intent of this rule change to take away the guessing on say an ally-oop pass? My guess would be that if the ball bounces inside the 3-pt arc, that only two points would be given.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Dave Brost
I am wondering if rule 5-2-1 applies to a ball that bounces after being released by the thrower/passer/shooter? Was it not the intent of this rule change to take away the guessing on say an ally-oop pass? My guess would be that if the ball bounces inside the 3-pt arc, that only two points would be given.

Hitting the floor ends any shot, the new wording
does not change this. If the ball bounces in after
hitting the floor on a 3 pt shot you count the basket
as a 2 and then take some air out of of the ball!

[Brian Watson]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

If one of his players collapse then he's out of the
game and can't return without a doctors note (NFHS),
so I guess his sub will have to stand

I know this was in jest, but be careful how yu state this. The rule is you must have a Dr.'s note if there is LOC, you can collapse with losing consciousness.

[BktBallRef]

I believe the intent of the rule is to qualify a pass as a try if the ball enters the basket. As Dan stated, a try ends when the ball hits the floor. 5.1.1

[Mark Dexter]

Speaking of rules changes, does anyone know what this new full time-out signal will look like?

Unfortunately, this probably was my last year of HS ball for a few years (hope to time college, and do some college rec with NCAA rules). I am very happy, though, that the 30sec. timeout rule was finally stated one way or the other.

[Mark Padgett]

Two comments: first, I have heard (although not confirmed) that the full timeout signal will be arms extended in front of you outstretched similar to the double foul signal, except that the hands will be open and palm turned toward the table with the wrists kind of thrust inward toward the table. Great - just what I need - a signal that makes me look "limp wristed".

Second, re: the new ruling on 3 point shots and the post above about what if the ball bounces. As also stated above, we know that the shot ends when the ball hits the floor. A few years ago I had a play at the very end of a two point game where A1 on the trailing team shot from mid-court, the ball hit the floor at the free throw line, then during the bounce the horn sounded, then the ball went in. Coach A wanted a three to win, coach B would have settled for a two to tie (as opposed to a three) and I sent everybody home by correctly ruling it was a zero.

[Richard Ogg]

As for the bounce, even if it bounces it was still thrown, so by rule I think it is now 3 points ("... any ball thrown..."). Before it was only 2 points because the try had ended, but if the ball legally went through, it was scored. Nothing says anything about bouncing, so if it was thrown from outside the arc, it is now 3 points. I agree the intent was probably to eliminate our guessing on the alley-oop, and that is a good change. (We're assuming it was not touched by the offense after the throw.)

If the ball bounces before entering, it must pass through the hoop before the horn sounds or it is dead -- zero points (still).

The collapsing was a joke.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Richard Ogg
As for the bounce, even if it bounces it was still thrown, so by rule I think it is now 3 points ("... any ball thrown..."). Before it was only 2 points because the try had ended, but if the ball legally went through, it was scored. Nothing says anything about bouncing, so if it was thrown from outside the arc, it is now 3 points. I agree the intent was probably to eliminate our guessing on the alley-oop, and that is a good change. (We're assuming it was not touched by the offense after the throw.)

If the ball bounces before entering, it must pass through the hoop before the horn sounds or it is dead -- zero points (still).

The terminology using the word "thrown" is already in the rule and it defers to the definition of a "try" which states the try ends when the ball hits the floor. You won't have any trouble with this one because the rule change only eliminates the language pertaining to the referee using his judgment as to whether the "throw" was a try or a pass.

[BktBallRef]

A1 shoots a three point airball. The ball hits A2 or B1 on the head and goes into the basket. Is this a 3? Of course not. Hitting the floor is no different. You're trying to read something into the rule that isn't there.

[Pirate]

After reading some of the articles on officiating.com regarding this new rule, I would have to agree with Richard that 3 points will be scored regardless of whether the ball hits the floor before it bounces into the thrower's/shooters basket (as long as the throw or shot took place behind the 3-point line). The article I read did mention that 3 will only be scored if it enters the thrower's/shooter's basket, not the opponent's. Just my interpretation.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Pirate
After reading some of the articles on officiating.com regarding this new rule, I would have to agree with Richard that 3 points will be scored regardless of whether the ball hits the floor before it bounces into the thrower's/shooters basket (as long as the throw or shot took place behind the 3-point line).

The new rule clarification is only to eliminate the possibility of an official ruling that a ball that went in was a pass, not a shot. It does not change the definition of a try, which ends when the ball hits the ground. If what you say above is correct (and it is not), then you would get horn continuation on a ball that hits the floor, too.

[bluezebra]

What is the rationale about making the players stand?

Bob

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by bluezebra
What is the rationale about making the players stand?

Bob

It is a NCAA rule. I really do not know how they want us to enforce it though.