Throw In - Defensive Player Interferance

[JDog]

Hi Guys,

When I played basketball in HS and college I was taught that if you got into trouble inbounding the ball that you could hold the ball out in front of you, inbounds, and that if the defensive player touched the ball or attempted to take it from you it was a technical foul. Now I played organized BBall 12-15 years ago so maybe I'm remembering this incorrectly.

Tonight in my rec league game that uses NBA rules, I attempted this with the score tied and 15 seconds left. The defensive player took the ball from me and scored. I claimed it was a technical and the ref said the ball was in play once it crossed the baseline.

I've searched the nba rule book on nba.com and can't find anything on this. I've searched some other sites and no luck. It seems to me that since I was out of bounds and still holding the ball, regardless of if it cross the plane or not the ball is not yet in play.

I did read where the inbound passer cannot hand the ball to an offensive player. Based on this same logic, at a minimum should my team have been rewarded teh ball again and at a maximum a technical foul?

I'd love a link, my teammates are asking me why I tried it anyway in that situation! My thought was with 15 seconds left if we get the technical they now HAVE TO foul us or we can just dribble out the clock.

Thanks! Again - NBA rules in a rec league.

[BktBallRef]

I have no idea what the NBA rule is but the call is correct for NFHS and NCAA. If you break the plane with the ball, it's free for the defensive to grab.

Why would you doubt the official? Had you ever even read NBA rules prior to tonight?

[Camron Rust]

From http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_12...av=ArticleList

Section II--Delay-of-Game
a. A delay-of-game shall be called for:
(4) Touching the ball before the throw-in has been released.
(5) A defender crossing the boundary line prior to the ball being released on a throw-in.
PENALTY: The first offense is a warning. A technical foul shall be assessed with each successive offense and charged to the team....
EXCEPTION (5): In the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any over-time period, a technical foul will be assessed if the defender crosses or breaks the plane of the boundary line prior to the ball being released on a throw-in.

From a strict reading of NBA rules, you may have been partially right. It reads as if it should have been a warning based on item #4.

However, you didn't learn this (correctly) from HS or college. In both of those, the ball is fair game when it is held across the boundary line.

Now the reason you probably didn't get the call....nearly all officials that do rec leagues are trained (if trained at all) on HS rules. They probably know many of the main NBA differences but you shouldn't expect them to know these oddball rarely encountered differences.

[Edited by Camron Rust on Nov 8th, 2005 at 12:52 AM]

[BktBallRef]

Do you have a 24 second clock? A restricted area in the lane? 8 seconds to get the ball across the division line? Move the ball from the endline to the opposite end with a TO in the final minute of the game?

[Edited by BktBallRef on Nov 7th, 2005 at 11:31 PM]

[JDog]

BktBallRef,

I don't understand the relevance of all the questions you pose. But the answer to all of them is yes.

8 seconds to advance the ball
TO advances it to half court
As far as "restricted area in paint" I'm not exactly sure what you mean. If you mean taking a charge within the dotted line is not a charge, than the answer is yes.

Now finally, you ask why I would doubt an official, well, as I mentioned, I had been tought this in HS, and I thought College for a Division III school (but may be wrong on this one, but I know it was taught to me in HS). I was the inbounder for my HS team and I was taught to do this regularly. It is actually still very instinctive for me to do this.

Now given the situation, probably too risky and as one poster noted this is relying on an official in a rec league to know a really oddball rule. Turns out he didn't know it so me questioning it wasn't so far fetched after all!

But I really appreciate both your replies!

[Edited by JDog on Nov 7th, 2005 at 11:47 PM]

[deecee]

the NBA would consider this any different -- all their ramblings regard a normal throw in process not holding the ball in the playing court for the defense to grab -- worst case scenario Id call the ball in play and You OOB and give the ball to the other team anyway.

Theres a reason they got rid of that being a technical because its to easy to exploit that rule -- you messed up and its not the refs mistake you did.

either way YOU'RE not getting the ball back after that blunder IMHO or if im officiating that game.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by deecee
the NBA would consider this any different -- all their ramblings regard a normal throw in process not holding the ball in the playing court for the defense to grab -- worst case scenario Id call the ball in play and You OOB and give the ball to the other team anyway.

Theres a reason they got rid of that being a technical because its to easy to exploit that rule -- you messed up and its not the refs mistake you did.

either way YOU'RE not getting the ball back after that blunder IMHO or if im officiating that game.

By what rule is the thrower OOB?

[JCrow]

J-Dog,

I happened to have been watching your Rec League Game and saw the play. #42 of your Team was wide open underneath! His man was arguing with his girlfriend on the sidelines about her having to babysit the six kids on game night. I had a few beers with your teammates down at O'Mally's after the game. You weren't invited. The guys wanted me to break the bad news. If you can return your uniform by Thursday, they'll refund 1/2 of your dues. I'd go for it....it's the best deal you'll get.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JDog
BktBallRef,

I don't understand the relevance of all the questions you pose. But the answer to all of them is yes.

I was curious as to whether your league used any modifications to the actual NBA rules.

Using NBA rules is part of the problem. It's a completely different set of rules that 99.9% of rec/HS/college officials aren't going to know. If I'm working that game, I'm going to rely on the rules knowledge that I have, as opposed to trying to learn a completely different set of rules and so is everyone else that works your games. Bad decision by the league, unless this is some sort of semi-pro or pro league.

[rainmaker]

JDOG --

You probably did learn that in high school or rec league 12 to 15 years ago. In HS rules, it's not that way anymore, though, and it sounds as though the NBA doesn't have that rule either. I'm impressed that you came here and asked and you seem to be wanting to know the truth, not just whining. A good attitude like that will help you a lot in life. What we mostly see here are wannabes or never-were's who are complaining about the "good old days".

[JDog]

Actually I redid the math. I played HS ball from '86 to '89. Yikes! That's almost 20 years ago! No wonder the rules have changed!

BktBallRef - Not a semi pro league by ANY stretch of the imagination! LOL. But the rules haven't been much of a problem, at least not a problem apparent to us 95% of the time. It's a pretty good league actually and gets me off my butt once a week so who am I to complaining. As illustrated by my original question, most of us are so far removed from HS and college games that we don't know what the "oddball" rules really are anymore anyway.

Rainmaker - Thanks for the kind words. I just love the game and I'll play as long as my body allows! I used to pride myself on knowing the rules and being the guy that would make "the smart play" at the end of the game...woops. this one backfired. Oh well. Still more fun than sitting on the couch watching tv!

JCrow! - AWESOME response. I forwarded it to my teammates. Very funny.

Anyway, thanks to all of you for the replies. My question is answered, and as of now I'm still on the team for next season!!!! Next time I'll be looking for #42 underneat intead of trying to get cute.

[JCrow]

J-Dog

I'm compiling a list of my personal personal dumb plays but unfortunately the Server for this Site has to be upgraded with more memory!

When I was in HS (1969) the State Tourney games were all played in historic old Boston Garden. What a thrill for a kid to play there. The Celtics use to draw so bad that they had HS games prior to the NBA ones, too. We were invited to play once and a YOUNG Don Nelson gave all the players a tour of the Celts dressing room. I'll never forget it - he was a super good guy.

My first time on the court, I tripped on the Division Line! The paint was really thick. Seriously, I just tripped on nothing and fell on my face at centr court. I just wanted to die......unfortunately, my Coach had the same feeling.