A1 is fouled in the act of shooting. Official looks at clock :01. Horn Goes off. Do we put :01 back on the clock or clear the lane and shoot free throws and game over.

Put the 1 second back on...

If the clock was 00:01 it could of been 00:01.1 (i know very picky) but, since it would effect the outcome of the game, I would put the time back on.

Foul occured before the horn. You have to give one second lag time to stop clock, so no, you don't put the time back on the clock. Shoot the free throws with the lane cleared.

But if you have definite knowledge of the time on the clock... i.e. 1.2 sec etc... you would place the time back on the clock.

No time goes back on the clock. Rule 5.6.3 A&B. I read and read (ok, skimmed) through the case book and really the only part that shed's some light on this situation was section 5.2.5. Anyone else know if there is a play like this in the case book?

The free throws are only shot if it can effect the outcome of the game. Otherwise, the game is over. 1 second lag time, 1 second ran off.

What if the clock didn't have tenths of a second, couldn't the clock actually been at 1.9 but only showed 1??? you don't know, so you have to put the time back on....since you have definite knowledge that it did say 1.something

If the clock didn't have tenths of seconds displayed, then you don't have definite knowledge. You only have knowledge that there was 1 second remaining.

You can only put time back on the clock if you have definite knowledge that more than one second ran off, and if you have definite knowledge what the time should be. You are required to allow the clock to have a second of reaction time (which most people call lag time). So if you

(a)look just as you blow the whistle, and see that the clock says :07, and then the clock stops at :06, you can't put time back, because one second of lag time is given.

(b) blow the whistle, and then look, and the clock stops at :03, but you didn't look when you whistled, so you can't be sure that more than one second ran off, you can't put time back.

(c) look and blow the whistle at the same moment, and the clock says :05, and then stops at :02, you set the clock back to :05.

(d) whistle without ever looking, and the horn blows, and you don't know what the clock said, you can't put time back.

All of this only applies to "rulebook" officials. If you're one of hte "common sense" people, you just do what ever seems right at the moment.

I first read this and though :00.1 seconds. Don't know why. The clock is alotted a 1 second lag time though, so by rule, I don't think you can put the time back on the clock. Common sense would say put it back though. I don't have my books with me, but will look this afternoon when I get home.

There's a good <b>COMMENT</b> at the end of case book play 5.10.1SitB that relates to all timing situations:

</b>CB 5.10.1SitB-COMMENT</b>: <i>Timing mistakes which may be corrected are those which result from the timer's neglect to start or stop the clock as specified by the rules. The rules do not permit the referee to correct situations resulting in normal reaction time of the timer which results in a "lag" in stopping the clock. By interpretation, "lag" or "reaction" time is limited to one second when the official's signal is heard and/or seen clearly. One second of the "reaction" time is interpreted from the time the signal was made until the official glanced at the clock.</i>

if you have definite knowledge that there was 1.3 seconds left when you blow your whistle, do you put 1.3 back on or allow for the lag and put 0.3??? if you put 1.3, then in this case, it seems like to me only my opinion, that you would put 1 back on the clock without tenths....but that is just me... according to the rule listed in above post about lag time, when the official blew the whistle, then looked up and seen 1 second so the lag time(reaction time)has already passed so by that casebook play it seems like you would have to put the 1 second back on....

[Edited by jritchie on Nov 4th, 2005 at 11:00 AM]

Put 1.3 back on the clock.

On a 00:00 clock, If 00:01 is remaining the clock has anywhere from 1.0 to 1.9 seconds remaining, if the clock says 00:00 it has any where from 0.0 - 0.9 seconds, (thats why we play the horn not the clock).... So why wouldn't we place 1.0 seconds left? I know about lag time of 1.0 but what if the clock has almost 2 seconds left (1.9) couldn't you tell it was longer?

Just food for thought

What about the clocks that show 00:01 whose time left is really 0 - .09 seconds?

If you have definate knowledge and the "lag" exceeds that, you put the time that you have definate knowledeg of, in your case 1.3.

Because it's not definite knowledge.

Read through all the 5.10 items in the case book, and then bring questions here after that. THere are 6 case plays and a comment.

Do the right thing.
 

I never had this situation in a game. But....
By rule, 1 second time lag. Clear the lane shoot the free throws if the outcome of the game is in question.

I know what the rule is, but If I know that my whistle blew before the horn,I'm putting time on the clock. No one is going to question this call. If I go by rule, the losing team's coach is going to go nuts (not that it really matters). Hard for anyone to understand hy time should not be put on the clock. NF should reconsider the lag time rule.

Ah, a good dose of bitterness to start the morning. Good to the last drop.

Z

Re: Do the right thing.
 

So just how much time are you going to put back on the clock???

Common sense for who? The team that gets another chance to win due the the additional time or the team that wishes for the game to be over since time ran out while they had the lead. Both would have reasonable explanations for why you should or should not put time back on the clock.

If there is less than 1 second that comes off the clock after the whistle such that time expires, the team that is ahead has won the game.

That says to me that if you blow your whistle and then look at the clock, the interval between whistle and look IS the lag time, you DO NOT need to see an additional second run off.

So if you were not looking at the clock when you blew the whistle, you can correct it to the time you saw when you did look.

The only time you don't correct is if you are looking at the clock when you blow your whistle and a second or less comes off.

Give me a break- If the clock has no tenths, 1 second is one second. Who cares what we may think about the internal clock- 99% of the clocks out there have the horn go off when the diplay hits 0

Yes you correct the time.

Lag time applies when you are LOOKING at the clock as the whistle blows.

In this situation you have whistle, then look, and then horn. By the comment in 5.10, the interval between whistle and look is to be INTERPRETED as the lag time.

The clock is not corrected if you have look then whistle or look and whistle together, 1 second or less on the clock and then horn.

Nope. Not bitter. Just wanting to avoid the fruitless arguements.

Uh huh, sure you were. Since there was no ref screw-ups leading to an unfair advantage in the play in this thread, I can't imagine anyone having an issue with doing it strictly by rule.

If you're going to be petty and sarcastic, you could at least own up to it.

Z :rolleyes:

Who's bitter?

There was a time when you apologized to me, now I guess it's my turn. If I've offended you, I'm sorry. I had no intention to do so.

OK, let's move on.
Z

Cool!

How in the world did we get two pages of posts out of that question?

Why is it you wouldn't set the clock back to :04 in case (c)?

That's just the rule. If 1 second runs off, that's lag time, and you don't set it back. But if more than 1 second runs off, and you have definite knowledge of when you blew the whistle, you set it back to the time it was.

See Case 5.10.1 Sit D.

Indeed.
 

Thanks. Like magic, lag time drops out of the equation . . .

I think that's wrong, Kelvin. I think "99%" of the clocks *do not* have the horn go off as soon as the display shows zero.

Most clocks turn "immediately" from 8:00 to 7:59 when they are started, and the horn sounds 1 second after the display hits zero. (There is (at least) one brand that waits a second before going from 8:00 to 7:59 and has the horn sound when the display shows zero).