At a local jr high, the girls team is coached by a husband and wife team. The wife is a teacher at the school and her husband is a volunteer, but he does most of the coaching. I have known these people as friendly acquaintances for several years, our kids have played ball together, but that was about the size of it. Last week early in a game, I hear the guy say "You can't call the game this way just because you hate me." I thought I had heard wrong, but he said it again. During the second quarter, I was at the table and he was six feet away, and he said pretty much the same thing. I was stunned, and said the first thing that came to mind. "______, if you wouldn't talk so much, maybe we'd all like you better."
In retrospect, not the most professional choice of words, but I was trying to keep it light and at the same time tell him I had heard enough. He continued to mumble about the calling throughout the game: "...no, he's not gonna call that for us...."etc. After the game he came to me out on the court, I was going to stay away from him. "It's not fair to the kids for you to call this way just because you hate me." I was somewhat annoyed by now, but thought I used some restraint and said, "You flatter yourself if you think I called anything because of YOU. If you feel this way maybe you should stay home next time and everybody would be happier."

Am I waaaay out of line? How would others have handled this situation?

Just an opinion.
 

Some would say you were. But it is Jr. High Girl's basketball. Who cares? I have learned at this level sometimes you have to put these coaches in their place. Now this is my opinion and someone will disagree, but coaches at this level act as if the world is going to fall on simple calls. They overreact to almost everything that happens. Sometimes you have to say things that you would never say during a HS game. I know during Grade School Football that I have worked the past few years, I would never say the things I do and the way I say them in a varsity football game. I think the best officials know how to adapt to different situations.

Peace

I rhink what you said is a reasonable analysis of the situation, but I doubt that saying it out loud helped the situation. It sounds as though he heard someone recommend this as a way to "work the ref" and he's just trying it on for size.

During the game, right after he says it, say, "Coach regardless of your and my relationship, she whacked her good on the arm. That's always a foul." Or the traditional, "Are you accusing me of cheating?"

After the game, when he approached you, you might have said, "Is this something we're going to talk about, and come to an understanding? Or are you just jerking my chain (with a little smile)?" Or something else that indicates that you, in fact, don't hate him. Or if you want to just jump in feet first, "What makes you think I hate you?"

In any event, I'd put him on the "no" list with the assignor. They don't pay enough to put up with this kind of garbage.

JAR, obviously you were not on as friendly terms with this jerk as you thought.

But, to answer your question, you should have T'ed his @ss up immediately. There's no reason for any coach to make it personal. Sadly the younger the players the more likely the "coach" will make it personal.

You could make up your own "Davism" for this - i.e.: "If you think my feelings for you are having an effect on this game, there's a simple way to remedy that. You're outta here. Problem solved."

there's more
 

Starting that night after the game, in person and by phone, this guy proceeded to tell other coaches, principals, and my assignor that I hated him, and that anywhere I might be, his team would not go. My first thought was not to dignify this with a response, but after further review, I decided that I needed to know more. I went to the school and met with the principal and both coaches, and asked basically, "WHAT IS THE DEAL?" The coach proceeded to say, in a calm voice, that he did not think that his team was playing on a level field, and that this was unacceptable since it was because of my hatred for him. Let me get this straight: "You base all this on bad calling, and conclude that I hate you." He replied that he could live with bad calling, but not when it was for this obvious personal hate that I had for him, which was confirmed by the two remarks I made at that game. Over a few short days these comments had evolved (in his mind) to the point that I said after the game, among other things, "Yes, I do hate you." I asked, repeatedly, where this idea came from originally. He, repeatedly, failed to answer this question. Finally, he said that he was not out to cause me trouble and cost me money, and furthermore he was not out to "create a ruckus." (WHAT?) I told him that he had already caused me trouble and cost me money, and had indeed created quite a ruckus. This apparently caused him to take a step back. He asked if I thought I could call their games fairly in the future. I told him I could and would to the best of my ability, just as I always had. He thought a little while and said well, okay then, he'd call everybody back and tell them, in effect, NEVER MIND. He also said, among other things, "I'm gonna look like an idiot." Well..... It remains to be seen how all this is going to shake out, but I see myself as damaged goods now any way you look at it.
The biggest problem here is calling too many games where I know too many people too well. I probably will be kept out of games here close to home for who knows how long, which is certainly not a bad idea in itself, but I still find this whole incident unbelievable and unacceptable. The one thing I am sure of is that nothing is going to be done to this coach.

SO YOU THINK YOU WANT TO BE A REFEREE.

You wonder why officials want nothing to do with JH basketball (or any sport for that matter)?

I hope stories like this one just show why folks that have worked a long time want nothing to do with this crap. If someone that you are friendly with thinks you are trying to get them, why even bother?

Peace

one more thing
 

Many years ago, I read something where a big name NBA official, Mindy Rudolph I believe, was addressing a group of people. He said that if a coach or player had an argument with an official in a restaurant the day before a game, the calling at the game would not be at all affected.
A voice spoke up from the crowd: "BS!" It was Wilt Chamberlain. Chamberlain laughed, "Mindy, you know that's a lot of bs." I've thought about this one a lot. I've always said if a coach had a personal problem with me, real or imagined, large or small, even if I said to him before the game, "Tonight I'm gonna get you," it would still be totally unacceptable to mention this in front of the kids. This was one of the last things I said to the coaches at this meeting. I also said, "Yes, there was something personal going on between us during the game, but only because you made it so." If either one had a significant response to this, it escapes me now.

Re: Just an opinion.
 

This is the where we disagree. The answer is: the Jr. High Girls do, and their coaches, parents, etc. Therefore, we must care, or we should not be there.

Re: Re: Just an opinion.
 

No we do not.

Remember, you are coming here complaining that a coach accused you of not liking him and taking something personal out on these kids. You can play that self-righteous line all you like, but you are the one complaining about it. You do not hear me talking about how a coach thinks what I did to him or her was personal do you? ;)

Peace

If I had even met with this clown, the first thing I would have asked was where he got off challeneging your integrity, why he was blaming things on you, and wonder why he was slandering your name around the basketball community, and where his proof was.

I would have then been specific to the principal that the coach's behavior and slanderous remarks need to cease immediately. I would have demanded an apology in writing. reported the clown to who ever sanctions the league if any.

A follow-up letter to the principal would be a nice way to memorialize this. I would also threaten that if such slanderous remarks continue that you would hold the coach and the school responsible.

BTW I would have told him I had heard enough, and then whacked him. At the end of the game I would not even address him or validate any feelings.

Why add to the banter? It's impossible to argue with silence. Obviously, this guy's not much for integrity, so when you replied, you gave him something to twist for his own good.

Perhaps a situation where your partner could've stepped in and quieted the coach, "Coach I hear you all the way across the gym, so you've had your say. If you question my partner's integrity again, I'll T you".

I was taught, when a coach is mumbling quietly enough that only you hear, if you aren't going to T him, step back, give the stop sign, tell him that's enough so people can hear, and go on about the game. Also, I agree that this situation would be a good time for your partner to step in. That way the coach will learn that if he acts like that most officials won't "like" him.

I would not even have wasted my time having a conversation with a varsity coach, let along a JH coach. Let say you made $40 for the game. You would be losing money and time trying to ask a dumb coach a question about "why" he said something to you during the game. If you do not like what he said, then T his behind up and move on. There is no way I would not even waste my time with a level where the kids are supposed to be learning and if trying to get better. Many of these kids will not even play basketball when they get to HS games.

Peace

Something just doesn't seem right about this whole story. It doesn't make any sense. There must be something that is missing. I would bet if the coach in the story were to tell his side, I would imagine it would be a lot different. This just seems way too odd.

I also would not have wasted my time entertaining this guy with a private meeting either. Please!! As long as my assigner understands the situation and did not assign me any of his games, I’m good.

As far as his in game comments I would given him the T, if that didn’t shut him up I would give him his walking papers. Sounds like he might have wanted to be tossed anyway.

Wow...sounds like someone went to a lot of trouble to try to deal with a situation that can't really be dealt with...the coach is going to think/say whatever he/she wants to, and no amount of "meetings" will ever change that. Having said that, the one and only time I can remember a coach using that same line on me, I responded with something along the lines of "Coach, my personal distaste for you has nothing whatsoever to do with my calls. I would never punish your players because I dislike you." He sat down and shut-up...

I thought the same thing. It still doesn't make any sense to me. The coach had ample time to tell me his side of the story there is still something missing.

Why do you care what his "side of the story" was?

This is a <b>FREAKIN JUNIOR HIGH GIRL’S COACH FOR GOD’S SAKE</b>. If the assignor did not fire you, or other assignors would not hire you, let it go. Who cares why he thinks you do not like him. That is his problem. If he wants to use your dislike for him as a crutch every game, then he is the one cheating the kids, not you or any other official.

Peace

3 reasons: 1. I have to live with these people. I can live with being thought of as a lousy official, but if someone wants to accuse me of being a lousy person without good reason, I see this as worthy of my attention.

2. $$$ We are paid travel based on the distance from the home of our association to the game location, regardless of actual distance traveled. Probably I am going to at least not be allowed to call close to home for a while. Now I will have to travel farther and be paid less.

3. Jr high is supposed to be the fun part. I have watched most of these kids play since their very first games, at ages 8 or 9. Watching them develop as players is something I consider priceless.

You shouldn't have reffed a game where one of the coaches was someone you know personally, outside of basketball. That's a bad move. Turn those back. We aren't allowed to work schools where we have children or family attending or working at those schools, or friends who are on the basketball staff. It's a recipe for disaster. You should have never been working that game in the first place.

You seemed to be worried about it too much. A lot of coaches think the officials are terrible. That is really the case at the JH level. Why worry about a bunch of people that would never be allowed to coach a HS or college team?

At least you will have your sanity.

Since when were they fun? Maybe in my first year and I did not know any better. That is why most officials stop working these levels. Or they work these levels because the money is good. I really do not know a lot of officials that like this level. That is not the case because of the players. The adults completely ruin these experiences with their pompous complaining and jawing as if the world is going to collapse if you do not call a foul.

Peace

WHACK.

Problem solved.

Get in, get done, get out.

It's basketball season for me again. Football is over.

I agree Rich. After reading all of these posts, I'm still baffled as to why you didn't just treat this guy like any other coach who made it personal or questioned your integrity. Whack him and if he keeps it up after that, see ya. The rules give you an easy response to these clowns when they cross the line. A number of officials here have given you sound advice. Your mistake was trying to communicate with this guy. Ref the game and deal with him appropriately. Then if need be, send a letter to his principal and AD with a copy to your association's officers. That's it. I would never have agreed to a meeting. If, however, I was forced to attend such a meeting by my State officials association, etc., I would not have attended without taking either my assignor or association president with me for support and representation. If you're being prevented from working close to home, then maybe something IS missing from this story. As for reffing JR High games, some us ref them to help out an assignor or organization or to be a senior person on the floor with a newer official. Either way, when I'm in that situation, I approach the game the same way I would a varsity game or college game. I have the same pre-game, etc. If a coach or player crosses the line, they are dealt with the same way. This guy was an absolute a@@ and you let him get to you when you should have just dealt with him and sent him packing if warranted. JMO.

Isn't that funny......
 

It's hilarious to me that the JR. HIGH coaches (and parents) always feel this way, yet they rarely spend anytime coaching their players in the proper fundamentals of the game. This is where the kids should be learning how to play the game correctly, and mistakes should be expected. So many of these coaches (and parents) treat these games as if they are NBA/WNBA finals, instead of focusing on the teaching aspect at this level. Teach the kids how to play the game correctly!!!

A lot of times it seems the only ones trying to have fun and just playing are the players on the court.

[Edited by SeanFitzRef on Nov 1st, 2005 at 12:42 PM]

I can see some of your pain. It is often very difficult to officiate in small communities where you know most people. I live in a geographic area of AZ that has several small communities close together. Most people know each other, especially those involved in groups, like athletics. I had a similar situation but handled it a little differently. I was doing a Jr. High football game and it seemed to me that things went fine. The following day I got an anonymous phone call from someone telling me about a person from the visiting school. This person was the AD at the neighboring HS but had a son playing in the JH. Evidently, after the game he was talking on his cell phone and said some things that questioned my integrity, and basically said I was cheating. Remember, this person is an AD of a HS that is governed by the AIA (Arizona Interscholastic Association) and former official that is also governed by the AIA. This happened over a JH game that is not governed by the AIA. Anyway, after getting the information I immediately fired off an email asking this person to give me his side of the story (I always want to get the facts before working with rumors). In his response, he admitted to saying the things he had said the questioned my character. That is as far as I went with him. I forwarded the email to my AIA commisioner and let him handle the situation. I have been assigned to do games for that AD since and things have been professional. What is important to remember here is that when emotions get involved (friendships) it is better to step back and let an outside party handle the problems.

This is not a small community issue or a big community issue. This happens in big communities as well. If you see the same coach over and over again, it does not matter if you live in that community. Or better yet, what if you grew up around this person and you happen to be working their games. This can happen in the big cities as well as the small towns. The problem is that at this level coaches lose perspective. Hardly anyone is going to remember or care what they did when they were in JH to begin with. You do not have 20 year JH class reunions; you have 20 year HS reunions. This is just another example of adults trying to turn youth sports into a proving ground for athletic achievement. Kids are not going to get college scholarships in JH and coaches are not going to get big time college jobs (let alone big time HS ones either) based on the JH achievement in these games.

This is just another example of why officiating at these levels is many times not fun. If coaches expect they are going to get the best officials working these games they are sadly mistaken.

Peace

It's not so much that they expect 'veteran' officials, but they think their kids are playing the game at the highest level of basketball ever played. These kids are playing relatively well considering they might have one or two days of practice, and are sometimes playing three games in a day. We try not to 'over-officiate' the games and let a flow develop, yet we have to keep a tight enough rein on the players so no one gets hurt from rough play. Most of the kids don't really know a rebound from a rabbit, yet the coaches scream and whine as if their pensions or mortgages depend on it.

When reffing these games, I am using them to tune my skills for the upcoming HS season, especially on being disciplined to my primary. Most of the ridiculous comments that are made come from people (coaches and parents) that don't know the game or the rules, and I treat their comments as such. Just Ignore Them!! Work the game, not the comments. Have fun. Let them deal with themselves and their own insecurities. If you know you have no personal vendetta against the coach or team, it shouldn't concern you.

The issue for many of us is not whether the comments and behavior concerns us. The issue for me is it worth my time to be treated in a way that is not becoming of the event. If you like these games more power to you. I just think people around children would understand that these kids are watching. We always want to blame the pros for their behavior and the adults these kids actually know and interact with are saying things these kids can see for themselves. It is one thing to show the actions of someone these kids will never meet, it is quite another to see that behavior from a Dad or Mom that everyone on the team knows. Parents and teachers are real role models, not some guy on TV.

Peace

JRut,

So true!!

I worked a game last Saturday, an 8th Grade girls B game. A father of one of the girls, who acted as an assistant coach, managed to get himself tossed out of the game for his overzealous commentary on the officiating.

His daughter dove on the back of a girl, while she is laying on the floor holding the ball. I call the foul, and he jumps up to complain as I am reporting, stating "She was going for the ball". I calmly give him a loud verbal warning that "I have heard enough, Assistant coach." I ask the head coach to keep him in line, as we have a good, close game going. Next trip down, the asst. coach keeps harping on the call, receives a tech from me (first one I have ever given in this league). My partner comes in during next dead ball and assesses a 2nd tech, because the guy just keeps complaining about the one call. He now has to leave the bench, and as he is leaving, their team and fans give him a standing ovation. For what??? He cost the team two points (out of 4 possible), and they lost by three. They have no clue about the game at all.

The thing about these games is it takes good officials and makes them look terrible. Working this type of game doesn't help me prepare for the season and doesn't make me better. I agree with JRut -- it's either (1) doing it for the money or (2) not doing them. I choose (2) unless it's a friend of mine begging for a partner.

I agree -- for kids who have their parents around. A lot of kids these days are "latchkey" and don't see much of their parents. Then the pros become more important. But even so, the friends' parents, the coach the work under, the teacher who's coaching all have an enormous influence. These are the most important adults, and they aren't behaving in ways they want their kids to behave. Really sad.

Very well put.

I do not buy that "latchkey" argument. Many kids did not have their parents around. My family is a good example. My Grandmother worked and did not stay home with her kids every waking moment and all but one got a college education. The only one that did not go to college ended up being the most successful.

The bottom line is there are kids that have everything and they act like little brats because their parents never check them. It is really bad with the kids that have everything. They think their kids above approach and being told what to do by other adults. In my time if I did something wrong my parents thanked the adult. Now, if another adult looks crossed-eyed at their kid they want to get a lawyer. We have a parenting problem, not a kid problem.

Peace

Just another consequence of today's shallow, consumption-crazy, selfish society. Look at what everyone's been watching on TV for the last several years - reality television. That says it all.

Sorry fellas, beg to differ on this one. I could care less about how I 'look' in these games, money not the object. I do think that these games are (1) a good training ground for learning to use judgement on calls, and (2)an opportunity to get in rhythym for the upcoming season. All of us don't have the opportunity to work games in the summer, and I don't want my first HS game of the season to be my first game of the season as well.

Working middle school there is little opportunity to apply advantage/disadvantage they way you MUST in a varsity game. In a middle school game just about every bit of on-ball contact is a foul, and needs to be for various reasons.

I just find that working these games fouls me up, just like working a freshman high school baseball game behind the plate is a bad idea the day before working a college game.

But, to each his own. I work a scrimmage or two to shake out the cobwebs and I'm happy to get going with the season. If you like working these games, have fun. I'd rather stay at home with my wife/daughter. 40 games a season is enough for me, which is why I've stopped working rec ball and weekend youth games as well.

I agree with Rich. All that lower level stuff does not help me with the majority of my HS games. For one you hardly ever work JH games as a 3 Person crew. Rarely are those games above the rim or purposely physical. I just see these games more as a way to think basketball, but it does not at all prepare me for what will happen when the regular season starts. That is why I go to scrimmages and as many as I can get my hands on. I am trying to take my game to another level. JH games are for money, they certainly do not help improve me game.

It these games help you, more power to you.

Peace

Since we're pounding away at Sean here I'll take my turn.

JH games are in no way tune-up games. If you enjoy working them or enjoy the money then fine. Or maybe you're obligated somehow, or feel some loyalty to the guy who assigns them. Fine.

But to tune up work some scrimmages at and above the level you normally work. Go watch an early season contest or scrimmage.