Frustration

[Mregor]

I just moved this past summer and joined a new association in a new state. Checked out the req'ts for applying for membership and got the requested letter from old association, copy of old card, sent in application. Now they of course have to do a determination to see what level I should be classified as, which I fully understand. In the meantime, I go to the rules meeting and this is where I start to have problems. Their rules interpretation is terrible. Trying to give an example of a Team Control foul, they used the example of an illegal screen during a throw-in. I had to resist the temptation to correct them. Someone finally did and after much tap dancing they came up with the correct interp. After the meeting I introduced myself to the leaders and they tell me I need to go to the meeting for officials new to the association and will be "reclassified" into a group commensurate with where they feel I belong. So I go to the meeting last night. There are about 25 people and all but 2 of them are brand new officials. We are learning basic mechanics. I play along and then we have a scrimmage. I get dinged for doing things different than they do such as when reporting foul to the table, they want you to verbally identify the type of foul where I was always taught not to. I say yes sir and continue. Then we have a throw in situation where the defender breaks the plane. The "clinician" stops and explains the rule "as he sees it" which is completely wrong. He wants us to record a delay warning for both teams as soon as one team does it. Next offender will be a T even if it is the first offense for the other team. He goes on to say that if they touch or dislodge the ball on the OOB side of the plane that it is a T (first time he was right all night), and lastly, he asks what is the call if the defender fouls the thrower prior to release. I speak up and say Intentional. He says it could be but you would have to judge their intent. I said I thought it was automatically an intentional foul and he says no. I drop it and continue. From here on out he continues to make numerous, and in my judgement, very amatuerish errors (over-the-back, baiting coaches into T's, etc.). After the scimmage is over, they hand out some assignments for MS games. At the end, I go to him and explain my situation and ask what I have to do to get some higher level games fully expecting that I'll have to work some JV to be evaluated before they give me varsity contests. But to my surprise, he says I have to be evaluated at the MS level before I move up to freshman and freshman before I move up to JV etc. OK fine, I signed up for a MS Girls game next week but am a little upset that I go through the process of getting letters of recommedation only to have to start at at MS level, especially from someone I don't respect based on what I just witnessed. Now, what's the purpose of this post? To vent a little and ask for suggestions. Knowing that this person was the assigner, I didn't want to correct him during his teaching as I don't want to come off as an a$$. On the other hand, he's teaching these new people wrong. Granted, I do not know the full heirarchy of the association, but since he's teaching the new officials and does some of the assigning, I figure he's got to be somewhat in a leadership position. Would you do anything differently? Any suggestions on how to persue advancement? I just retired from 20 years in the military and moved a lot but until the last 7 years, was not serious about officiating. The association I just moved from didn't assign the games; you had to work on your own in getting games from AD's and conference commisioners, so I'm new to this system. Sorry for the lenghty post but would like to hear some objective feedback.

Mregor

[Snake~eyes]

I would say you have to let it go - you are just a new fish and you attempting to correct him in class or even to some higherups wouldn't be a good start. I'm not sure how to move up, I would just go with the flow for now. As far as your story starts it doesn't sound like a very good association.

Good luck - I hope it gets better.

[PAULK1]

Congrats on ur retirement and thanks for ur service.
Going to a new association is always hard in the beginning
(I know I was in your same shoes 20 years army) especially
when you get a bad one. For the short term ur stuck with what u got. In the long term check with the state assoc to see if there are any other assoc fairly close and check them out. Also find out if they have camps in ur vacinity during the summer Chances are some of ur assoc big wigs or
best officials either attend or are clinicians if they like what they see u can move up faster. For now the best u can do is look better on the court, out hustle them and out score them on the test. good luck

[zebraman]

Hang in there and just play along for now. After you've established yourself (and you will if you merit it.... the assignor(s) will get feedback from partners and those observing you during the year), maybe you can work on making this association stronger. Not only stronger in finding better interpreters and clinicians, but also a stronger board that wouldn't let their "clinicians" that teach ignorance.

When I first joined my association about 9 years ago, there were some officials that had been around a while that weren't very knowledable or good. However, it seemed that everyone was afraid to straighten them out. We've changed things now and our board and veteran officials are not afraid to correct an official (or even an assignor) when they give an incorrect ruling or mechanic. We've created a culture where people generally look things up first before shooting from the hip about something they "think they know" or "heard from someone else."

Z

[Edited by zebraman on Oct 26th, 2005 at 12:00 AM]

[Rich]

Originally posted by Mregor
I just moved this past summer and joined a new association in a new state. Checked out the req'ts for applying for membership and got the requested letter from old association, copy of old card, sent in application. Now they of course have to do a determination to see what level I should be classified as, which I fully understand. In the meantime, I go to the rules meeting and this is where I start to have problems. Their rules interpretation is terrible. Trying to give an example of a Team Control foul, they used the example of an illegal screen during a throw-in. I had to resist the temptation to correct them. Someone finally did and after much tap dancing they came up with the correct interp. After the meeting I introduced myself to the leaders and they tell me I need to go to the meeting for officials new to the association and will be "reclassified" into a group commensurate with where they feel I belong. So I go to the meeting last night. There are about 25 people and all but 2 of them are brand new officials. We are learning basic mechanics. I play along and then we have a scrimmage. I get dinged for doing things different than they do such as when reporting foul to the table, they want you to verbally identify the type of foul where I was always taught not to. I say yes sir and continue. Then we have a throw in situation where the defender breaks the plane. The "clinician" stops and explains the rule "as he sees it" which is completely wrong. He wants us to record a delay warning for both teams as soon as one team does it. Next offender will be a T even if it is the first offense for the other team. He goes on to say that if they touch or dislodge the ball on the OOB side of the plane that it is a T (first time he was right all night), and lastly, he asks what is the call if the defender fouls the thrower prior to release. I speak up and say Intentional. He says it could be but you would have to judge their intent. I said I thought it was automatically an intentional foul and he says no. I drop it and continue. From here on out he continues to make numerous, and in my judgement, very amatuerish errors (over-the-back, baiting coaches into T's, etc.). After the scimmage is over, they hand out some assignments for MS games. At the end, I go to him and explain my situation and ask what I have to do to get some higher level games fully expecting that I'll have to work some JV to be evaluated before they give me varsity contests. But to my surprise, he says I have to be evaluated at the MS level before I move up to freshman and freshman before I move up to JV etc. OK fine, I signed up for a MS Girls game next week but am a little upset that I go through the process of getting letters of recommedation only to have to start at at MS level, especially from someone I don't respect based on what I just witnessed. Now, what's the purpose of this post? To vent a little and ask for suggestions. Knowing that this person was the assigner, I didn't want to correct him during his teaching as I don't want to come off as an a$$. On the other hand, he's teaching these new people wrong. Granted, I do not know the full heirarchy of the association, but since he's teaching the new officials and does some of the assigning, I figure he's got to be somewhat in a leadership position. Would you do anything differently? Any suggestions on how to persue advancement? I just retired from 20 years in the military and moved a lot but until the last 7 years, was not serious about officiating. The association I just moved from didn't assign the games; you had to work on your own in getting games from AD's and conference commisioners, so I'm new to this system. Sorry for the lenghty post but would like to hear some objective feedback.

Mregor

Roger,

Didn't even know you moved. Thank goodness I don't have to deal with that -- when I moved here, I hated the system, now I'm in my fourth season here and would probably pack it in if I had your experience elsewhere.

Hang in there -- the cream always rises to the top. Eventually.

--Rich

[ChuckElias]

Roger, I can't really give advice or even tell you what I would do b/c I haven't had to deal with anything like that. I just wanted to add my encouragement to the others' here. I hope that you will stick with it. I hope that your experience and proficiency will be noticed among all the newbies in your MS games. Once you have been there a little while (hopefully a couple months), you will find somebody that you can talk to honestly about the situation and who will tell you your best course of action. Good luck. Please let us know how your season progresses. I know that I would be interested in hearing.

[truerookie]

Mregor, Thanks for you service enjoy the civilian life. There are two things I will say. First, remember Groupthink)a quick and easy way to refer to a mode of thinking that people engage in when they are deeply involved in a cohesive in-group, when the members' strivings for unanimity override their motivation to realistically appraise alternative courses of action. Groupthink can lead to bad judgments and decisions being made. It serves as a simple way to deal with difficult issues.

Second, Do what you know is right and others will take notice.

Thanks for you service again!!

I will never accept defeat!

I will never quit!

[WhistlesAndStripes]

I was in a situation a couple of years ago, with the exception of the rules misinterpretations etc. Basically what I found is this:

1. All the letters don't mean squat to anyone. That's just to give you the run around a little bit.

2. Speak up at meetings, and challenge them on their intertretations if they are in fact correct. This is a way to let them know that you know the book inside and out. Don't be afraid to show that knowledge in the classroom.

3. Bide your time for a little bit. My first season in a new area, i got a grand total of FOUR varsity games. Did I like it, no. Did I think I deserved better? Yes. But that's just the way this stuff works. Whether you like to admit it or not, officials associations all across the country are all a bunch of "good ole boys" networks. It'll take some *** kissin and stuff like that to work your way in, but be personable about it and it can be done.

Like I said, my fist season in a new place was crap, but the next year I was workin a full V schedule. One other piece of advice, work closely with them 20+ newbies as much as you can, and let em know you're there to help them get better and listen to their point of view. Id your board is elected, it's amazing how far them 20+ votes may be able to carry you.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
2. Speak up at meetings, and challenge them on their intertretations if they are in fact correct. This is a way to let them know that you know the book inside and out. Don't be afraid to show that knowledge in the classroom.

You have to be very careful with this one. I would not challenge people on rules and interpretations. That might come off wrong if you are not the right person that is making the challenge. You might come off as a trouble maker.

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
3. Bide your time for a little bit. My first season in a new area, i got a grand total of FOUR varsity games. Did I like it, no. Did I think I deserved better? Yes. But that's just the way this stuff works. Whether you like to admit it or not, officials associations all across the country are all a bunch of "good ole boys" networks. It'll take some *** kissin and stuff like that to work your way in, but be personable about it and it can be done.

I have to disagree with this a little. Why would someone that has not seen you work games give you better games than other people that they have seen for years? I only belong to one association that even gives games at all. And even in that association it is up to the assignor to decide who works what and when. It is not about "ole boy network" it is about who is not going to screw up and make waves in the games. After a lot of what we do is based on our performance. If we do not have credibility with coaches and our partners, it does not matter how good we are we you are not going to leap frog all those people that have been performing for years.

Originally posted by Whistles & Stripes
Like I said, my fist season in a new place was crap, but the next year I was workin a full V schedule. One other piece of advice, work closely with them 20+ newbies as much as you can, and let em know you're there to help them get better and listen to their point of view. Id your board is elected, it's amazing how far them 20+ votes may be able to carry you.

Did you kiss *** to get that schedule? Or did you prove over some time that you could work?

I just consider it a cop out when guys say it was the "ole boy system" that kept me from working. I know when I moved I had to prove myself. What I did was attend every camp I could. I worked every game I could get. I asked everyone to evaluate me and spread the word. It did not take me long to work an entire varsity schedule. I had to prove myself in some conferences (and with officials) that I could work and handle myself. It was obvious to many that saw me work that I was more experienced and knew what the hell I was doing. Even at the varsity level I worked a lot of really ****ty games and now I am working much better match ups in conference.

Peace

[Tweet]

I agree with JR on the point that it may look like an "ol boy system" but if you are a good ref the good ol boys will notice you believe me and you will get more games.

It takes time and I know it sucks when you move from a situtaion where you are known to another situation where you are treated as a youngin.

If you dont liek the way they do stuff there is only 2 things, try to get elected and change it from the inside or move again, or once you get known, slowly ask questions about their interpretations, you know lil bits here and there, like" I thought this rule was this and that, and maybe even read the rule and ask for their interpretation" make them know you know the rules and you are aware them.
good luck in ur new board though

[jritchie]

Does this new association have a set of by laws that they go by??? or do they just do what they want?? there should be a set of them that tell what type of games transfers that are coming in from another association "IN GOOD STANDING"(like yourself) get!! Some leave it up to the board members to approve what they will get, but there should be a set of laws for the association that covers this, maybe just ask for a set to look at!! Like others have said, you might not want to push it too much if your going to stay around for a while, just pay your dues, do your little ms games and they should be able to tell where you rank among there "good ol boys" and you should move up pretty quick!!!

[ChrisSportsFan]

I agree with alot of what's been said. Work hard in your assigned games, attend camps, attend the meetings but don't make waves.

Maybe you can offer to meet your Assignor for lunch where you can talk away from others and away from the coach. Let him know that you understand proving yourself but that you would appreciate a conserted effort by him to come see you work. This is where you guys can agree on expectations.

[Mregor]

Yes they do have by-laws. They jsut say that transfers are required to provide proof of experience in the form of a letter from previous association (which I have done but they haven't made a determination yet). The associations here are geographic. This is the only association in this area and since I'm now "out west" it's not practical to work out of my local area. Like I said, I don't know the heirarchy yet as the regular meetings haven't started yet. Will feel them out as the season progresses. Thanks for all the tips.

Rich, I know what you mean. I finally got in with several conferences so I didn't have to try so hard to dig up games. WIAA is tough on new/transfers due to the fact that some commissioners are scheduling 3 years out. Even if they get a look at you, the best you can hope for is a re-schedule due to snow. Hope you have a great season!

Roger

[Tim Roden]

About correcting rules of a new association, I had to do that a couple times when I moved to Texas. What I did was, I found a friend in the association leadership and then pointed out rule problem to him. I explained it to him the way I was taught. He took it back to the meeting and he corrected the chapter in how to do it. I wrote and article on transfering several years ago and in it I explained that going backwards is part of the process. If you are really a good official you will be brought up. Take all the political knowledge that you have and use it as you rock the boat without them knowing who is rocking it.

The one thing that I had to do to figure out what the difference between what I knew and what was being done in that state was to attend a regional or state meeting. The local group doesn't necessarily have a clue that they are doing something different, but at the meeting, they actually gave me a list of what was different. Once I knew that, I was able to comfortibly do the state specific mechanic or rule and then teach the my friend in the leadership what I had learned in my previous state. Some are adopted some are not but at least most of my partners are comfortible with they way I call.

[Mregor]

Thanks Tim.